"Determine ranges by target?" Topic

I was looking at WRG's WWII rules and noticed they have spotting rules which consist only of maximum ranges a certain target can be fired at. IE You must be much closer to infantry to target them than vehicles, and you must be much closer to models in concealing terrain to target them than models in the open.

Considering the recent (that I've perceived anyway) receptiveness to allowing (mostly) infinite ranges in many games, how do you guys feel about instead determining range by the target? I'm considering exploring this a bit as I continue to rejigger my Hail of Fire rules.

What do you guys think?

Sounds reasonable to me. I think Battlegroup makes it easier to spot vehicles than infantry, but does not discriminate in terms of range.

I'm fairly sure Battlefront WW2 has something similar. It is a while since i played it, but from memory there is a maximum spotting range for different target types, but it is possible to fire on an unspotted target (i.e. into its general area) at a -2 modifier. Or something like that.

how can concealing terrain possibly affect range?
range is range regardless of concealment.

Raven, the idea would be that being able to hit a target 1000m away isn't relevant if you aren't close enough to identify where the target is. For the sake of discussion anyway…

@ RavenscraftCybernetics

Isn't the point that a vehicle behind a hedge at 100 yards would be easier to spot than one at 1000 yards? And a man in similar cover would be virtually impossible to see, even at the shorter range. I agree that you could use area fire to suppress a possible target, but there would be little point in aimed fire if you could not spot the target..

Depends how big the hedge is…

It depends upon their size and movement, I suspect, e.g. infantry moving across open ground, or hunkered down and hiding; A/T guns in ambush positions, or in hasty positions out in the open with no cover, etc., etc..

Anything moving should be much easier to spot, and target.

I wouldn't restrict a tank gun from firing on infantry, just 'cause they're infantry. Seems like they'd be as valid a target, and perhaps more so, than say an empty truck.

a 10x magnified optic in the tank's gunsight makes it look like a 100m range, and I can see humans at 100m.

This is how I worked it in my own rules years ago.

All units were concealed until 'disclosed'. I threw a d6 for each unit and multiplied it by 100m. the d6 roll was doubled if the target was a vehicle, doubled if moving, doubled if firing a large Main Armament and doubled if in the open. Infantry got to deduct 2 from the dr while some big AFVs added +1 or even +2. I think I added +1 for small arms, +2 for MGs.

Concealed units could still be fired at but it was MUCH harder to hit them.

This is a really key area of 20-21st century combat because more and more if you can see it you can hit it and if you can hit it you can hurt it.

While I don't think my ideas were the complete answer, time and effort spent in design and game play on spotting/visibility rules is well spent.

Players tend to want to rush to shooting and killing stuff, so it may take some work to get them to refocus on what they can see and positively ID.

Varying location ranges by target type is very common, command decision, spearhead, TAC….

I think some rules designers need to take more walks in the countryside!

It depends, of course, on what theatre you are talking about. But NW Europe for example, is absolutely chock full of 'stuff'. Trees, bushes, hedges, fences, walls, buildings, all sorts of stuff. If you are not on top of a hill it is often hard to see more than a couple of hundred yards. You can be walking down a lane, turn a corner, and suddenly find a tractor!

As others have said, to shoot at things you have to have seen them first. Stationary things are very hard to see.

The upcoming Dropfleet Commander has rules that effectively determine range by the firer and target, representing the scanner range of the attacker, and signal of the target.

Fistful of Tows has this, as long as the possible engagement range goes up if the target is moving or firing I'm good with it.