John the OFM | 23 Jan 2016 5:43 p.m. PST |
link Someone in the past has griped at how Martin "ripped off" history. Particularly with Stannis/Agamemnon and Shereen/Iphigenia. I prefer to not see it that way. I think it makes Martin clever, but we can agree to disagree on that. What astonishes me is that I completely failed to grasp the Tyrion connection to Richard III, who is the "hero" of one of my favorite Shakespearean plays. Go figure. I also thought that Cersei and Jamie were the Anne Boleyn and her brother combo, but am willing to reconsider. I do think that Natalie is HOT. Something about that crooked smile aflames me! And a bonus. link Osha as an archetypical Campbellian "Protector" figure. Neat. I think the other Natalie is HOT too. Jeez. April 24 cannot come quickly enough. |
jowady | 23 Jan 2016 7:07 p.m. PST |
Joffrey=Caligula? Cersei=Livia? Tommen=Edward VI? Cersei=Agrippina? Cersei=Theodora? (in which case does Robert=Justinian?) I don't know about Tyrion because at his heart he is a fool. He thinks that he is worldly and knows women yet he falls for the oldest mistake in the book (outside of the whole "land war in Asia" thing) when he falls in "love" with Shae and thinks she actually loves him. Hey Tyrion, she's in it for the bucks (okay, dragons).
I'm willing to take Martin at his word, that his books and characters are "inspired" by historical or legendary or literary figures. In part because there are many figures that you can link together. Is Jon Snow actually Arthur Pendragon based on his birth story or is he more like Roland whose own actions lead to his death? And speaking of Jon Snow what of Azor Ahai and the Prince who was promised? After all Arthur is promised to return in the hour of Britain's deadliest danger, and AA is supposed to wield a magic sword. Or is he Shakespeare's Caesar? And is Stannis drawn from Ambrosius Aurelianis or Marcus Aurelius? Likewise is Barristan Selmy an aged Lancelot or maybe he is derived from William Marshal? There have always been schemers aplenty hiding in the shadows, maybe Varys is inspired by Berea or maybe J. Edgar Hoover? Petyr Baelish can probably be said to be similar to any number of classic Bond villains but then throughout History the "money men" have always been considered to be not quite Gentlemen. In Maergery (and I too share your fascination with Ms Dormer's smile except that to me it's hiding something) could we be seeing Martin's version of a young Eleanor of Aquitaine? Of course you can also draw the same comparisons for Star Wars Characters. So I would say "ripped off" may be too unkind a characterization. |
Winston Smith | 23 Jan 2016 7:12 p.m. PST |
As for Bond villains, the actor who plays Roose Bolton would make a great one. |
Huscarle | 24 Jan 2016 3:12 a.m. PST |
I always pictured the following:- Starks = Percy & York. Lannisters = Neville & Lancaster. King Robert = middle-aged Edward IV while his namesake Robb Stark was the young Edward IV. Cersei = Elizabeth Woodville & Margaret Beaufort (with her brother Tyrion taking Margaret's diminutive stature). Jaime = Anthony Woodville Greyjoy = Stanley & Somerled of the Isles. |
Rapier Miniatures | 24 Jan 2016 3:14 a.m. PST |
It is a total rip off of the wars of the roses, Martin himself says that. It became fantasy when he discovered that 'research' was hard. What he used as his basis stylistically is the Accursed Kings series by Maurice Druon. |
jowady | 24 Jan 2016 8:22 a.m. PST |
Funny, I missed the part that Dragons and a 700 foot tall Ice Wall played in the Wars of the Roses. While Martin has said that he was, in part inspired by them, I am curious where you have seen him say that he ripped them off because research is hard. GoT isn't meant to be History. |
Who asked this joker | 24 Jan 2016 8:40 a.m. PST |
what if he did "rip off" history? I didn't know Historical fact was copyrighted. |
John the OFM | 24 Jan 2016 11:16 a.m. PST |
So… If Naomi Novik introduces dragons into Napoleonic naval warfare, she is ripping off history? Or Avram Davidson has wizards in a strange :Late Roman world, he is ripping off history too? Did Scarlet O'Hara exist? Rhett Butler? Pierre Bezukhov? |
Lee Brilleaux | 24 Jan 2016 12:17 p.m. PST |
Rapier Miniatures may wish to go back and use the edit function on his ill-chosen comment before he is completely savaged by the readership. After all, how many times is is possible to be Torn a New One? |
nazrat | 24 Jan 2016 12:56 p.m. PST |
Let's all wait and see! 8)= |
Goonfighter | 24 Jan 2016 1:13 p.m. PST |
Rapier may have a point, in that GRRM may – I don't know and can't be bothered to find out – have started off with the idea of Wars of The Roses but in a fantasy world, from which the whole thing gradually careered out of control. In that sense the Baratheons are the Lancasters who get rid of the mad King aka Richard II but who then fall out with the Starks and civil war ensues. Once the pretenders have slogged each other into the mud, the dragon riding Tudor Daenerys appears and merrie olde westeros enters a golden age until she (like Henry VIII) goes off the deep end and becomes a tyrant. The wheel of time etc etc…. And in that sense, he could have lifted an entire plot from history but lost said plot completely with buckets of backstory and an ever expanding (but ah, changing) cast list Look at how LOTR started – Aragorn was a hobbit called Stomper…..Prof Tolkien sorted himself out, GRRM hasn't. |
Winston Smith | 24 Jan 2016 2:18 p.m. PST |
Martin also rips off the NFL. Wun Wun the giant (= One One = 11 = Phil Sims the Giant) rends asunder a knight bearing the sigil of the Dallas Cowboys. We should hold that against him too. |
Fisherking | 25 Jan 2016 10:24 a.m. PST |
I can never hold anything against anyone who does or says anything bad about the Dallas Cowboys. |
wminsing | 28 Jan 2016 7:19 a.m. PST |
All sci-fi and fantasy is history with the serial numbers rubbed off. ALL OF IT. If you haven't caught on to this by now I don't really know what to say. -Will |