"Modern DAK" Topic

TMP link

per the above-What would a modern Deutches Afrika Corps look like-realistically a light brigade with special forces and air support.

BUT if you could update the original OB? The idea of Wiesals and Leopards zipping over the oilfields Rommel fought over is nifty neato!

I've thought about the same thing in moments of whimsy, Western Desert but updated.

Would be interesting kit on the battlefield what with the mix of Allied and Axis kit; Brits, South Africans in Ratels, Aussies in LAV's, Italians with the Centauro and Germans with their lovely stuff.

Thanks for re-igniting that one! Off to ponder Orbats…….

per the above-What would a modern Deutches Afrika Corps look like-realistically a light brigade with special forces and air support.

Well if this does come to pass you might want to look at the opposition first. That would be mostly militia types armed with small arms with some heavy weapons. Not a lot different from the Islamic jihadis the US has faced in Iraq and Afganistan, but maybe somewhat better armed with flak guns, artillery/mortars, and maybe even a few T55s/T62s.

So I would think yes to the special forces and air support, but the light brigade would probably have some armor attached to deal with the odd tank or three. Do the Germans have a Stryker style APC? I could see those being very handy.

But to another, more troubling, question: could the Germans even assemble a fully functional brigade to deploy? Granted, the Germans have had a year to regroup and take their military seriously, but do they even have high readiness forces? I thought the Germans only had companies and odd battalions sent to Afganistan.

I would think they'd form a 'kampfgruppe' just to get experience.

"Do the Germans have a Stryker style APC?"

You bet: link

Well ok, my own opinions on what a terrible idea the stryker style stuff was aside, and assuming that the Germans can get their brigades equipped and their AFV's working (doubtful in some circumstances)

I'm supposing here that you are wanting a more conventional style battle, probably against the British for tradition's sake. if against insurgents, they would send infantry (10th Panzer. it has a Gebirsjager brigade as its third brigade)

The Germans will probably send 1st Panzer, obviously less the Polish 10th Cavalry Brigade. The 10th Panzer's third brigade is mountain infantry. one of the brigades is the Lehr brigade, and I'm guessing its the most well supplied.
link
It has 2 Panzer brigades and 1 Panzergrenadier brigade.

The UK would most likely oppose this with the 3rd division. this is the only division in the British army with tanks, from what I can tell, under Army2020. Each of the 3 brigades has 1 of the 3 Armored Regiments of the Army.
link
(here is where I turn into an arrogant Yank)
I'm not entirely sure where the logistics came from to get these guys and their equipment there and to support them came from, and the Germans won't have the Italian navy running Interference for them against the Royal Navy, not that there is much there to fight with anyways. I'm pretty sure both sides will be screaming for US assistance, and in the case that we actually do something, I can't see us coming down on any side other than the British. Of course, our politicians are pretty dumb and could do anything. If we did come in, we would most likely force the straights of gibraltar with a carrier battle group or 3 and just blow stuff up from the air. should we deploy ground forces, for a conventional ground fight, the most likely candidates are 1st Cavalry division (3 armored brigades) 1st Armored's 2nd and 3rd brigades (1st is stryker) (this one is unlikely. I have a friend in the unit and he says its basically undeployable) 3rd infantry's 1st brigade (armored. 2nd brigade is leg infantry. no third brigade) and 4th Infantry's 3rd brigade (armored). (friend in this unit as well. he says their equipment is REALLY worn out) Also have been told by guys "in the know" that US 1st Infantry is completely undeployable. 2nd is in korea.
Who am I kidding? the US will probably do something really dumb and send the stryker brigades in to get slaughtered.
I would love to put the USMC into this scenario, but they only have 1 armored battalion and I don't know where it fits into their structure.
Air support will be tricky. the Germans are likely to not have anything more than choppers unless they can take over some airports or something. Same for the UK, as there isn't really anything to put onto their QE's. I'd hate to be in a harrier or those f35 junkers against some Gepards. when/if the USA come on scene, Air will be supplied by the Navy. the Air Force will show up after its all over.

If you are looking at Ultramodern stuff, then yes, it would all be a bit silly. But go back to the good old days of the Cold War, and we have panzer and panzergrenadier divisions galore, as well as four British armoured divisions.

Leopards and Marders vs Chieftans and Challenger 1s and, err…. FV432s…

So a couple of panzer divisions and a panzergrenadier division for DAK, and for the Britsh swap some battlegroups around to produce two armour heavy divisions and two infantry heavy ones, and off you go.

Apologies for the anger inherent in the last post. Was in a poor mood.

How big were we looking at going with this? If about a division a side than the modern stuff should work, if you want more than that then I agree with Martin and doing it in the 70's and 80's would be the way to go.

As an aside, the op wanted Wiesel involved, amiI correct in my assumption that they are used by the airborne units? That would suggest a rapid reaction force involved as well.

Let me know how big we want to go with this and I'll do a little more research and piece some stuff together for you OP

you know an interesting and perhaps a slightly less far fetched way to go about it is to have the breakup of the Soviet Union be a little more messy than it was, and to have the majority of US forces occupied with "transitory expediting" roles. (aka safeguarding nuclear and other weapons stores) in the former USSR. This leaves the Gulf 1 campaign up to more of a multinational lead army, and in the current situation the recently reunified Germany is asked to participate. in the aftermath of a successful conclusion of the campaign, tensions are high (warning: silliness) between muslim inhabitants and the occupying German forced due to the Germanic predilection for sausages. Some (formerly east) German leaders are responding to this in a rather heavy handed way. Meanwhile, to the south, the Italian 5th Corps took advantage of its position to take control of a few key oil fields, and deployed the 3rd corps from Milan to the Suez. In response, the Arab world is incised. As they turn to the Coalition for assistance, there are riots in the streets. These are dealt with in varying degrees of effectiveness. In the German sector, some formerly East German officers have taken this to extremes. As the UK prepares the 1st Armoured to take back the oil fields form the Italian 5th Corps in the aftermath of negotiation breakdowns, the Germans are censured by the UN. thus the stage is set for a desert campaign!

The original idea seemed simple, just presume that the DAK and Rats are at it again but with Cold War or ultra modern kit. Don't bother with the background and throw in some French and South African or Aussies and of course Italians if you want and off you go.

Spectre Operators could be used to attack Rommels command centre and doesn't someone do German combat frogmen? They could sabotage Tobruk harbour. If you kept it early you'd not have to worry about the Americans.

For something like this, I'd throw realism out the window.

Its the Russians, Brits and Yanks (and the rest of the coalition of super friends) versus the Germans, Japanese and Italians, with their modern kit.

Challengers vs Leopard 2? Oh yes.

No aliens?