"Update On Architects of War..." Topic

I found this blogpost through my Facebook Page. It doesn't look good for AoW.
blainepardoe.wordpress.com

Frank Frey

Very well put….

It sums up the All Quiet aspects pretty well. But it doesn't account for the fact that Architects of War had been around for quite a while before All Quiet existed and had a good reputation and other successful products. It would be interesting to know the whole story, but I doubt we ever will.

One note on the continuation of the fan base, etc. Before Ernie disappeared, he did sign a contract with Winged Hussar Publishing for two novels set in the All Quiet world. Those are going ahead and the first is scheduled to be published in March. It's a good story, with or without the game.

Makes me more annoyed and reinforces my opinion that they 'pulled a fast one' on gamers. They are pitiful.

I think they just got in over their heads and were desperately floundering around trying to find some way out of it. That doesn't excuse their actions, but I can't help but pity them. I saw on another site that there is legal action to foreclose on their home under way. We gamers may have lost a bit of money, but it looks like they have lost everything.

Sorry,no pity when you take(polite term)peoples money and absolutely no communication. Scott, you seem to be their apologist…It won't help them….

Very helpful to read some in-depth perspective on the aspects of gaming companies.

I feel torn about this. If there were personal circumstances that forced him to close up shop I understand that. But at the same time it's no excuse to leave open orders hanging and to keep all the customers' money.

Ernie right now should be GLUED to his computer and logged into Paypal processing refunds for every open order that was paid for and not fulfilled. To just ignore that without any explanation is inexcusable.

I was fortunate in that I paid with Paypal, and I was able to recoup my $65 USD from AOW(or at least was able to get a refund by Paypal forcing AOW's account into the negative to pay me back if AOW didn't respond to the dispute, which is how it generally works if a company doesn't comply with the dispute). I would encourage others who paid them with Paypal to do the same, Paypal is really excellent and supportive in retrieving funds that are stuck in limbo.

LVG: Yeah, it does sort of seem that way, doesn't it? I'm not even sure why anymore. Ernie probably owes me far more than he does any of the usual gamers at this point.

Scott,Loyalty is an important attribute which I respect highly.However,sometimes
one has to know when a situation becomes indefensible.
You have built a nice business and are respected by many gamers…me included.
You would probably never get in AOW's situation but if you did would you handle it the same way. Highly unlikely. We all make choices and they made alot of bad ones.

LVG – I understand your stance. But losing your house? That's rough. I read the blog post listed at the beginning of the thread. Ouch.

I really feel bad for the families involved and for Scott. I'm sure nobody though this would happen. And Scott wrote a couple of books for a game that's pretty much defunct. Seems like everyone got burnt on this deal.

When people knowingly break the law… like fraud… they deserve what they get. You reap what you sow. If they had gotten behind or over-reached they should have (if they had any honor and respect for their customers) immediately STOPPED TAKING ORDERS. It's that simple.

Scott Washburn: On what site did you read about their house being foreclosed upon?

Frank: It's a new forum set up by the die-hard AQ fans. Here's the post:

link

@avid gamer,

The last part of your post is my sentiment exactly! If they knew full well that would no longer be fulfilling Perry special orders, or anything else on their site for that matter, those items should NOT have been available. They allowed customers to continue putting those items into their shopping cart and they allowed customers to PAY for it, with our silly assumption of course that we'd actually get what we ordered!

Quite right, if they knew they could not fulfill any new orders, then they should have stopped taking orders right then and there!! Not hard to understand…!

Baranovich,

Yup. I work in law enforcement. People get arrested for less.

The COULD have taken orders if they had no control of their website and returned the money and sent an email apologizing for the problem. Once aware of the situation then post EVERYWHERE that they can no longer fill orders on 'this or that'. It is very simple if they cared but clearly they have some sort of arrogance and distain towards the wargaming community, as shown from that article.

The blog post was interesting for a couple of other reasons. Aerolyth Enterprises, which is my company and produces The Hive and the Flame and Stars of Empire (as well as two additional source books) is basically a side job for me. I have one co-writer and a few artists that help out.

There is no possible way we could do everything that the blogger states are required to make a game successful. I can hit a few cons a year and run some games. There is only a single decent hobby shop left in St, Louis and it's almost a hour drive from my house.

Maybe their is a fundamental difference between those of us that are satisfied with remaining a fringe player and companies that aspire to much larger commercial success. It seems like AQotMF was a "dare to be great" scenario. I'm fairly happy with my "dare to be almost unknown" niche within a niche.

As a fan of WOTW game, this is disheartening to say the least and the thought that individual and personal losses could be suffered (their home), heart breaking.

HOWEVER, I first noticed around Nov. the site was down, as some have mentioned, only a notice to the effect they were 'revamping' their online website and store. As such I thought little of it, in fact it seemed to be a sign that things were going good even improving for them. But with each 'look back', nothing changed, my curiousity lead me here.

I can only Totally Agree with the majority of the comments posted. If personal issues were involved, they have my sympathy, BUT they still have/had an obligation to their customers. The very minute they realized they were no longer going to be able to fullfill orders from any supplier, that should have been Clearly Stated and customers should have been advised "NOT to order these items until said issues were resolved".

If they did in fact 'knowingly' continue to take orders and funds under such circumstances, this is dishonesty bordering on even criminal actions.
Apparently a very sad end to what was a great game and game company.

@Part Time Gamer,

Well said.

That is indeed the issue at hand. If their business just slowly unraveled financially until it because unsustainable and they had to shut down, well I wouldn't wish that kind of stress and loss on anyone.

As you said, in November the language they used was that their site was "being improved for the best customer experience". I thought that was a curious way to word it, since they already had a full functioning website with an efficient and easy to navigate shopping cart. The website was well organized and shopping on it was not a hassle. So for them to put it that way raised a red flag for me.

The sudden and total closing of the website with that strange page with that notice, looked more like what you'd see when a new company was starting up and their website was under construction, not what you'd see if a website was merely being improved.

When all communication stopped at the same time the website was shut down, I anticipated that they would be sending out emails to all customers who had open orders with them that were already paid for, explaining the situation and whether they were going to continue to ship against orders or provide refunds.

The fact that they did NEITHER, and just kept all the money for those open orders is what rattled me and everyone else of course. Now if their shutdown was so chaotic and so disorganized that they lost track of open orders still pending shipment, I can understand the difficulties. It is also possible that the money they had received for the defunct orders was spent on other expenses between November and January.

Of course, the problem with that is that they kept money for product they did not ship! So if they used that money out of necessity to pay bills, that's fraud and theft whether they intended it or not! There is no possible way they could not have known that there were open orders that had not been fulfilled. There was no way they could have known that they had customers' money for orders that had not been filled.

So whether it was just honest disorganization on their part or willfully keeping the money makes no difference. The fact is they kept it, either out of sheer necessity or because they dismantled things so quickly that they just decided they couldn't be bothered with processing refunds.

Either way – not a great way to treat customers to say the least!

Alot of speculation going on here.I look at actions and so far none have been taken to try and make things right in a meaningful way or any way at all. They obviously used other peoples money to help themselves in some way.
The problem in this hobby is generally one order is usually never big enough to go to court or the customer doesn't feel it's worth the hassle. Dishonest people know that and when the situation warrants it they take advantage.
Until some action takes place to change my mind I have little sympathy.

LVG, That is exactly my problem. As for the order that I placed it was approximately $80. USD To file the report with the Lancaster City(County) Police, then file with the small claims court, pay the sheriffs office to have them served, take time off to go to court in Lancaster and have them not show. Then finally go back to court to get a lien of some type against them, which might be years away from being resolved. I have an attorney on retainer, but that would still cost me many multiple of the money that was taken.

File claims with Paypal and or your credit or debit card issuers, that's really the answer for getting your money back. And do it now.

scott,
your link regarding foreclosure is unavailable unless logged into the forum.
my registration is currently pending. would it be possible to re-post here?

either way, thanks for the info.

-clark182

Architects of War officially announced that they have filed for bankruptcy by sending out the following missive…

We regret to announce that effective January 27th, 2016, Robot Peanut Studios, LLC, and its associated brands, Architects of War and Alien Dungeon have permanently closed their doors.

Our sales plummeted precipitously in the 3rd and 4th quarter of 2015 and never recovered across our online retail operations as well as hobby shop and distributor sales. We could not maintain our business under these conditions and despite a continuing series of sales and marketing efforts, we have been forced to file for bankruptcy. The case has been filed in the United States Bankruptcy Court for the Western District of Pennsylvania at case number 16-20247. Please contact an attorney if you have any questions.

We set out six years ago to start a company providing exciting and entertaining intellectual property primarily in the analog gaming market. RPS began with miniature games with the intention of expanding to board and digital games. While the All Quiet Kickstarter project brought in significant sales for us, the cost of development, manufacturing, and shipping exceeded the sales numbers and we were relying on sales beyond the Kickstarter in the broader market to carry the costs and expand the game. These sales never materialized in sufficient quantities. It is just that simple – we sold stuff through the Kickstarter that essentially ended up just above cost and then paid for the shipping. All Quiet just didn't generate enough money for its scale. In addition, our original cost estimates based on quotes and time frame from various vendors Pre-Kickstarter were exceeded, making the business model untenable without retail sales that never materialized.

We are very sorry that it has come to this. Certainly not the outcome we dreamed of when we started the company. To our investors, the Kickstarter supporters and our loyal customers, we'd like to thank you for your support. It has been difficult not communicating during this legal process, but we have had to go through a process and that has been well outside any of our previous experiences.

This will be our last communication. Customer service inquiries will not be answered and there will be no additional communication on Kickstarter. We do not know what the final disposition of All Quiet and or other product brands will be at this time. We have to forfeit our participation in such matters to the court.

Barb and I must move on and find employment and start putting our lives back together. To our friends, investors, vendors, and loyal customers, thank you for helping us try to fulfill our dream and we wish you the best possible future.

Yours Sincerely, Barb and Ernie

Here's a link to this letter on Kickstarter:

link

I'm not sure if non-supporters can see it, but here it is for what it's worth. Sad indeed.

Well that's all well and good, and a very thorough explanation – but it still doesn't explain why they were accepting orders in October and November for Perry minis that they knew they would not be able to fulfill.

This explains their circumstances leading up to the bankruptcy, but it does NOT satisfy their reasons and motives for keeping customers' money, shipping no product, and offering no communication or explanation.

This isn't good enough. Essentially this is like saying, "we tried our best, we didn't know how to run a business, sorry if we kept your money for stuff you never got, you're out of luck".

Again, I'm not even talking about the Kickstarter and everything related to that – I'm talking about Robot Peanut Studio's web site and the orders that they accepted just last October and November. They have MONEY from customers that they are not entitled to keep!

That is not acceptable.

That is not acceptable.

You're 100% right. I've learned my lesson the hard way. Now I pay everything by AMEX and then pay the bill once it comes in.

Let Ernie try his little game with AMEX – thank you for funding my dream – baloney!! Boo Hoo, sniffle, sniffle. I don't think so.

If they didn't take other peoples money that they had no right to I would have some sympathy. However,they used the system to their advantage by offering product they didn't have and keeping the money.
Arch of War will always leave a bad taste in my mouth whenever it's fading mempry comes to mind. Shame on them….

Baranovich,

It wasn't just October and November but December as well! They stole the money.

Tgunner,

No no no… not sad! It's criminal. You have not read through all the threads if you think it is sad.

I hope I see Barb and Ernie show up at an event and I will corner them. I'll demand my money back on the spot! They willfully took money with no intention of filling orders.

Why don't you all get together and file a complaint with the Postal Inspectors?
Isn't that their job?

@TheKing30,

Yes indeed, that is why I have gotten into the habit of paying with Paypal whenever it's available as a payment option.

Paypal got me my $65.00 USD back pretty quickly, and the nice thing about Paypal is that even if the vendor in question doesn't respond to the dispute, Paypal will simply put the Paypal account that the vendor has on record into the negative to get your money back.

Essentially it's like a bank account going into overdraft, Paypal informs the vendor that they have a refund charged against their account and informs them they are responsible for the charge.

So they leave the vendor stuck with having to make good on it.

Again, have to agree, and though not a 'victim' Of AOW, after having read here that some even placed orders In Person at con's AFTER this started in Nov, appalling!

Any online or even in person payments, by all means, when ever possible use an established bank that has some type of "buyers protection guarantee" or Paypal.
After all, as *Baranovich has said, Paypal 'docks' the vendors account and they have to make good on basically reimbursing Paypal. And you can bet that no company, Paypal, AMEX or the like, will simply accept this. They already have the lawyers on staff. They WILL go after people like this. You dont just take 'their' money and walk away.

While it maybe little consolation to those that trusted them with good faith and got 'burned', Im confident, there will be a reckoning.

Believe it or not every time you spend money, its a gamble…

Had I invested and not received I would of coarse be upset as well but these things happen. Their are countless cases of over success on kickstarter.

I doubt there was fraudulent intent. Lack of proper planning and manpower is more to blame.

Situations like this totally suck for all involved.

I had posted this on another link but I thought it might be worthwhile here.
I was in the kickstarter pretty deep and didn't receive a number of items and I can live with that (not happy but you can't change reality). What I am more disappointed is in the loss of AoW as a vendor and distributor of historical miniatures and terrain. I run the vendor hall for 2 of the HMGS conventions and AoW was a very real presence in the Hall (they had one of the largest set-ups in the vendor hall). The carried a very diverse set of excellent products (their own and that of others) and displayed these products in a very effective manner – lots of people came to shows to see and buy their products). To see what I thought was a successful company (before the KS) fail so quickly makes me wonder if there is more to this than just a bad set of business decisions related to the kickstarter or is it something deeper with the overall business. I am really sorry to see the loss of this outlet for a number of very good historical miniatures and terrain. I hope that some other company can step in and at least pick up the distribution of some of the products for our shows. I understand the anger of some of the disappointed backers (and I am one of them), but I hope this is not more than a failed kickstarter or even a failed business model, because I have seen a lot of historical and miniature companies close in the last 5 years and when a business this large fails I start to get concerned about the entire hobby. To put a perspective on the declining numbers we used to have over 80 or so vendors at our shows 6 years ago and we are now in the 50's.

Rogues..the kickstarter did them in based on their statement above…

Rogues1 – "the very real presence in the dealer hall"

This always baffled me as I could not see how there would be enough sales to support the number of tables they would get.

I had even done a back of the envelope financial analysis with a lot of assumptions way back in the Spring of 2015, but my conclusion was there was no way AoW was able to sustain the expense level they had.

Any person can start a business. Not every person can run a business successfully.

In the end I guess I was correct.

Lon, I had the same sense, especially for a company that was not producing/spinning the majority of their own figures (like Old Glory). In the end I agree the Kickstarter was the ultimate cause of the downfall, but I think there was a desire to grow the business much larger that they were never able to achieve. I think it should be viewed as a caution to many of the gaming companies that launch successful kickstarters. Kickstarters are really made to get a new product or a product line out there, hopefully expanding or growing your business. They are not good to help a business recover or recoup losses in other areas, you are just putting yourself at a greater risk of exposure (as indicated with unplanned production and shipping costs with AQMF). As many have said, I would have paid for shipping for Wave 2 and even Wave 3 to see the company survive and the game continue, but now we have nothing. It is sad.

I too wondered at the huge space AD would rent at the HMGS conventions. But it's hard to draw any conclusions. I go to those same conventions with my PaperTerrain business (and have for the last 10 years) and frankly, I make VERY little money at them. By the time I subtract the cost of the tables, the cost of the hotel, food, gas, and the cost of the products I sell, I rarely come home with more than a couple hundred dollars in profit. I do a bit better at Historicon, but for Cold Wars and Fall-in, I'm happy to break even. And while I can hope that the exposure of my product at the shows increases my on-line sales (which is where I do make money) I've never been able to prove that it does. So why go? The answer is that I enjoy going to the shows! I like showing off my work and talking with people and walking around watching and playing the games in the evening. It's a mini-vacation that pays for itself. I don't know if Ernie felt that way about the shows, but perhaps he did.

As for the Kickstarter program itself, I have always had a 'double edged' sword view of them.

As 'Rogues1' pointed out; its a good way to get a New product 'Out there', and if lucky, can then lead to follow up / support products, mini's, terrain, etc.
However, if anyone were thinking they could use this as a way to recover other losses, or pay off previous debits just to 'catch up'. (rob peter to pay paul as it were) they are only playing with fire. Because if thats the case, you still have the KS promises going unfullfilled, thus accruing further debits and debtors

This approach, robbing Peter to pay Paul is also known as a Ponzi scheme.

PsychoRabbit,

While I do not believe that there was fraudulent intent with the kickstarter. I cannot believe anything else when they told me to my face that they had the items in their hand that I had ordered two months earlier. I was told that it would be shipped on Monday. They had never placed the order with their supplier in England. Would you consider that theft by fraud?

I also agree with the suggestion that there wasn't fraudulent intent. I had a sizable buy in to the Kickstarter, and am now out 3 scout tripods, a Tender, Tesla, Munitions tanks and a Harvester. For my money, I received plenty of stuff, so from that stand point I am satisfied, but I bought no Landclads, and I know folks lost out there. I believe they were not ready for the 300K Kickstarter cash input and did have problems with manufacturing. Since the amount for shipping was low, I know they lost out there and like some others, I would have paid extra for the later waves. I believe that in no way those folks walked away with money from the KS. As many business go out each year, its a shame that this one in the hobby market has now died. I guess we shall see what the future hold for gamers of AQotMF.

Jammer, all well and good that your satisfied even though you were shorted on a number of items. Many folks weren't satisfied and were taken advantage(nice term)of. People ordered outside of the AQotMF KS and were screwed also.
Intent is not the issue…it's what actually happened to too many folks. They were deceived and their money was stolen.No nice way to put a spin on this….

I believe that in no way those folks walked away with money from the KS.

Unless you have the financials in front of you there's no way to back up that statement with fact.