"Polyversal or Age of Tyrants" Topic

If a person were to only back one of these games, which would you suggest?

Personally, I like that Polyversal lets you use pretty much any models, but I'm guessing that can easily be done with Age of Tyrants as well.

Thoughts and/or opinions?

There is Horizon wars to think about as well now!

link

Out of the three, I like the look of HW….. But time will tell I suppose.

Personally Id love to see a 6mm version of Gruntz…

Steve

Links would be helpful.

There you go!

Polyversal – polyversal-game.com

Age of Tyrants – ageoftyrants.com

Horizon Wars – link

@yorkie o1 – Can't you just use 6mm models to play Gruntz as is? What would need to change to make it a 6mm game?

A good 6mm game is moving full armies about, using Skirmish rules for 6mm figs is doable, but misses the feel of being a commander of the whole army.

Polyversal has been worked on for at least a solid 4 years if not more.
Full build your own, from the folks who do Spearpoint collinsepicwargames.com

Will offer minis from many different makers, and unit builder.

Been watching it for awhile now.

Horizon Wars
From what I have read is more a Mech game, with Infantry and Tanks being generic.
Build your own Mechs and Air.
Might me a good rule set to replace Robo Tech rules, and Mech Warrior stuff.

Age of Tyrants
Looks like OOP Epic models for many of the units, which are hard to find.
Rules were on their site to look over.
Another solid offering.

For me looking at Polyversal for the rules, an established company, and some models, and Age of Tyrants for some models.

Poly should have the play video up soon and you can read Age's rules draft now. So you can get a feel for the one you like.

Sad that their KS hit at the same time, but it happens.

Will spend a little on both, if Poly is what I think it is a bit more there.

The good news is 3 Solid offerings in the 6mm range coming, and Epic (my guess one box then drop), from GW this year as well.

I hope they both fund and get a decent amount of 6mm in the market.
Look at both as I bet they will each have models you want :)

Hmm I need to keep any eye on these if they can give a sci-fi equivalent to the multi corps battles of Blood Big Battles.

@Sean, The thing with gruntz is of course that it is a skirmish game which is fine, but for 6mm I personally want companies of troops and armoured squadrons etc.

In Gruntz a single tank/vehicle/mech etc will take numerous damage to destroy it, so its not suited to big battles.

Are the kickstarters live yet for polyversal and Age of Tyrants?

Steve

Age on Thursday I think, Poly next week he is finishing the how to play video, last I heard.

I'm in two minds on this, but for what's it's worth -

Age Of Tyrants would be for completist collectors of Urban War and those wanting to play big scale battles in that universe, or even OGRE players wanting massive vehicles in another milieu.

Polyversal is for wide-ranging 6mm players who just love the feel of playing massive combined arms ops, and want some way to combine all the many excellent minis out there in the one game ( Plus get a hold of Plasmablast minis :) ).

Command Horizon is basically a "back-to-basics" SF 6mm game, like a modern thinking version of Dirtside 2.

That's how I call 'em.

AoT. But I'm a little bit biased :)
combined arms and important command structures. Beta rules can be downloaded for free.

I'm leaning on age of tyrants…cause of their established universe…and the KS eye candy I just saw.

But the others sound great too, and these projects are going to breathe some fresh air into 6mm…. And I bet make a lot of diehard 6mmers happy

I see choice as a positive, at least to the consumer….

Seems like the decision between AoT and Polyversal comes down to whether you are into the AoT universe and like to have your games pre-packaged with all the miniatures included or whether you like to mix & match your minis from different manufacturers or have an existing collection.

Personally, I am in favour of the latter but I am happy that 6mm sci-fi is getting some long deserved new releases and hopefully this will breathe some new life into the genre. I am playing Epic right now, but I am ripe for something new.

In terms of mechanics, both seem good but I don't know the details to make a comment. I like the fact that AoT focuses on combined arms, which seems like a reasonable focus. We don't really have enough detail of the Polyversal mechanics.

The prices on AoT were a bit of a shock must admit.

24 pounds is around 35 dollars, for 4 tanks.
No shipping included.

Maybe I am just old but that seems high.

I had the exact same reaction to AOT. Plenty of good 6mm out there already, those prices are on the high end. Not sure why anyone would back unless they really liked the designs more then what's already out there. For me, there is nothing that really sets it apart.

Junker are good for Epic not I think.
Synths are weird not sure I like yet.

I too am amazed at the number of folks paying 8.50 a tank for 6mm, with shipping almost 10.

A single hero is 12usd.

But the backers seem to see no issue with it.
These have to be retail prices as there is no way folks would buy in higher.

2 companies 1 Armored 1 Infantry with a Hero, is 242 or so dollars before shipping.

16 tanks, 16 stands of Inf, 1 Hero.

Just do not understand it at all.

I so wanted to do AOT but not at those prices. Im looking at other current lines and i cant find any (yet) that are $8 USD a tank. I like the rules but havent looked into other 6mm rulesets so cant really say whats better.

Well Polyversal KS should be running sometime this week, as they are using current 6mm producers for models, hoping prices will be in reason.

The detail on the AoT Infantry seems to be a lot less as well.

Only reason I have not pulled out of AoT is to see if they have any real extras for the lower pledges, Dice and such I find a bit lame, when for 70 USD before shipping I get 8 6mm tanks.

And that they claim there is 0 Profit at those prices.

They have said a few times most all the extras are for the top end pledges only.

Even said that is why they did not offer new pledges with the Company sizes they just listed, because they put all the extras in the higher pledges and would have to redo the math.

Just thought I'd chip in. Those tanks are MASSIVE. Super heavy, big as a baneblade. 50mm long in some cases. The level of detail is super high. (Minimum detail size 0.2mm) I know, I put a lot of it on there. I've had some test castings and I was gobsmacked.

I don't know how Prodos kept all that detail, but they did. (We also have another 2 manufacturers lined up so thing don't go pear shaped.) These minis are awesome. You are getting what you are paying for.

Oh yeah, I'm one of the digital modellers on AoT if you hadn't guessed.

Well I have left AoT for good, your post helped be get out, thank you.

I was looking forward to both of these projects, but AoT is a bit of a non-starter due to the price and my lack of familiarity as regards the setting. Some of the models are nice… but not that nice.

Polyversal: was hoping to pick up just the rules PDF as I already own most of the models that come with the base set (and probably most of the stretch goal models as well). But…

1. $25 USD seems a bit excessive for a PDF copy of the rules, and
2. While all of the chosen models are well-designed and well-made by some great people in the industry, the chosen models for each faction in the starter don't mesh stylistically well enough for them to look like coherent fighting forces from their represented factions.

More information about other aspects of game-play (and unit design) would also be helpful for those of us still on the fence.

IOW: not sold, but still a maybe; I have time to decide.

Hey all!

I'm the community manager for Age of Tyrants. I just want to wish the guys at Polyversal good luck, as you've all noticed, you can use our figures, or indeed any figures in their game, so I would urge you to help them out at the same time as us! :)

As for our pricing, we understand it's a little different to what perhaps people are used to in the 6mm industry. We've got some overheads to cover and we are not hiding that fact. It's important for us to pay our sculptors, our designers, our artists and manufacturers fairly, to create the best products we can; whilst making it acceptable for our eventual retail and distribution chain to buy at a standard discount.

For many of the currently trading 6mm manufacturers, the latter point is not of a huge concern for them, so they naturally give you guys the margin that we would be giving our trade routes. That means they secure sales with end consumers, instead of trade accounts.

For us to grow the game, we must go through trade. The overwhelming advice we've had from retailers and distributors is that KS is too often used as a platform for excessive discounts and therefore, not a product they necessarily want to purchase.

Please also understand that £20.00 GBPk is our funding goal. We've hit that and we are funded. We are starting to unlock stretch goals (a few quite early) and the eventual aim is to add more and more as free content. Once we start really making headway, that will absolutely be the case.

I hope that helps a bit and please, if you do have any questions, concerns, queries or feedback, please do let us know. We're nothing if not a communicative bunch.

Cheers!
Rob

Just posted up a bunch of pictures of various units for AOT.

There are some very cool ones that haven't hit the Kickstarter yet, so I am not sure they will release them for that or not.

Each army/faction has some rather cool figures. They also just released the CLAUs which do add a bit of fun to the units.

link

As the designer of Polyversal, I can say that I am backing both games, and plan to pick up Horizon Wars. More 6mm sci-fi is always a good thing. Age of Tyrants looks amazing, and is set in an already existing game universe that I love. The miniatures look very nice, and they have a staggering amount already designed! I see the projects as complimentary, frankly.

Polyversal is taking a different approach. When I designed it, I did so to allow people like me, who already had minis from several different games, to play those minis against each other without being stuck with a particular in-game universe. While we are not partnered with Age of Tyrants, you are free to use your Age of Tyrants minis to play Polyversal. The game includes rules to create stats for any 6mm miniatures.

One of the issues in 6mm sci-fi as a whole is that there are a number of excellent manufacturers making miniatures, but not rules. I did not design Polyversal to sell a line of miniatures. I designed Polyversal to help everyone in the 6mm miniature business sell more miniatures, and to give all of us players an option to play with everything we have collected. We included the minis from our partners to give new players a taste of the incredible range of 6mm sci-fi minis already on offer.

I will stick to rules design, and leave the miniature design professionals (including the obviously-talented ones working on Age of Tyrants) to do their thing.

With three new games coming out this year, we really are putting the "6" in "2016"!

@MiniatureReview – Even I haven't seen those yet! I've wanted Sandrunners since day one!!!

Colour me VERY excited about them!

@Tertius – here, here! :D

@Tertius so say we all.

@robalderman you and me both. :-)

If a person were to only back one of these games, which would you suggest?

If you have to ask, don't. Wait until they are out and people have reviewed it.

Polyversal: $80 USDk as a start is way to high, they are trying to much with existing IP. Just do the book imho. The minis you can already buy.

Age of Tyrants: At least unique minis, I think it's a bit pricy, especially for a KS. Unless you absolutely need to have the minis, leave it. I also look behind to the companies behind the whole VOID line (which this IP is using) and I'm going to be very careful about giving them money. Don't know if these are the same people though. But BT infantry and vehicles are significantly cheaper.

Horizon Wars: Osprey is publishing it. No KS required, available in less then three months, hardcover, 96 pages, £19.99 GBP, can't go wrong there imho. If you want you can even wait for others to review it, all with very little risk.

There are a TON of 6mm miniature games already out there, while many are very niche and not popular, I don't see that changing with these releases.

For $15 USD you can pick up Alpha Strike or Classic Battletech on DTRPG.com

Things like Net Epic Gold/Armageddon are free.

We have Dirtside II, Strike Legion, Future War Commander, etc.

Plus the legion of OOP 6mm rulessets.

Making 6mm 'popular' requires something like GW resurrecting Adeptus Titanicus, Space Marine, and/or Epic. That looks like it's happening in the next few years. Or FFG making a prepainted 6mm ground combat game for Star Wars (very unlikely).

Well, IMO, there is always room for more options. A new rule set with a nice selection of minis. Does not strike me as a bad thing. But should be lauded.

Making 6mm 'popular' requires something like GW resurrecting Adeptus Titanicus, Space Marine, and/or Epic

Many gamers I know, especially those on Tactical Command, 6mm sci-fi is very popular. And includes many 6mm sci-fi mini companies on that site. All I do is 6mm Sci-fi, which started with Epic in '90. So IMO 6mm still very popular.
And many of us old timers … like me … don't have much faith or regard for the New re-re-re-re-release of Epic … But that is my opinion. Always do what works for you … not me …

Well I agree with a lot of what Cergorach has said above. But I also agree with what Legion says about more variety. I think both KS are interesting, but I think it would be great to see someone create an entry level product that is the whole package (introductory forces, some terrain, and rules in a single box). This means it would probably have to be plastic and cardboard to be affordable. A big undertaking, but that is what Kickstarter is for in my mind.
Lots of others are making interesting lines of minis a few at a time, responding to customer demand and have been successful without using KS, eg Microworld, Onslaught etc. Same with rule systems, eg strike legion, laser storm, etc. I like both projects, but I just don't see the advantage to the consumer in the Kickstarters. Anyway best luck to both!

Hey when at a buffet … why just eat the fried chicken ? And believe me … I love a Buffet !

My 6mm Sci-fi forces include, GW/FW, CinC/PFC SEM, Microworld, Exodus Wars, DRM, Old Crow, TMG, Onslaught, GZG, OGRE, to name most of them !

But again … here is always my bottom line : Do What Works For You … Not Me …

@Legion 4: While more options gives you more choice, it also muddies the water. The topic starter is a perfect ecample of the average consumer: "Which product shall I choose?".

Tactical Command is a great resource, but it's preaching to the quire, those are all 6mm fans. It only has 4k members, not many active. Divided over many different game systems and even genres. Battletech.com has 5500 members and is focused on Battletech.

When I say 'popular', I mean a lot more then 4000-5500 potential customers/fans. GW and FFG are the only companies that currently have that kind of reach and production capability.

Zombicide Blackplague had ~21k backers, but that translates to 42k-166k+ players. A 6mm wargame is pretty much by definition a 2 player game. And often every player owns a rulebook. So to reach the same amount of people, you need a LOT of backers. That's what I mean by popular.

@Logain: How many of the 6mm mini companies that failed are you now forgetting? ;-)

But you pretty much nail the problem, there are many (and have been many) 6mm miniature companies. Money is pretty much made by making miniatures and not rulebooks. Unless your called Osprey and making rulebooks is a tiny side business. There are not as many 6mm sci-fi gamers as there are 28-32mm sci-fi gamers, there also not getting that many new ones into that hobby. Especially when I look at what the 10mm competition is currently offering with Dropzone Commander, Firestorm Planetfall, Reaper CAV, etc.

We probably already have a crapton of infantry, tanks, fighters and Mechs…

Only a few 6mm companies have failed really … Many are still alive and well. And I'm a long time member of Tac Cmd and 6mm Sci-fi fan. Starting with GW Epic in '90.

"Which product shall I choose?".

That is the same conundrum a buddy of mine has. My crew and I can't go to a buffet. Because he can't choose … and eats everything … and is sick for the rest of the night. And we got to hear about it.

So as with many things in life. Balance, self control and discipline. As the Crusader Knight said in "The Last Crusade", You must choose wisely.

My problem with all my 6mm sci-fi collecting. I don't know if I can get it all done. Before I'm recalled back to the Mothership …

Woops !!!! Just saw another New 6mm Sci-fi company ! TMP link

Our group finds that Laserstorm mpby Nordic Weasel very good and they have added some supplementsniw which are well worth the money

Just saw this on AoT comments

I was wondering about the pricing of the terrain. I compared the prices to those of the same models on the website of brigade models… and they are a lot cheaper there, almost 50% for some of the sets you offer. Surely, that cannot be correct?!? link

It seems as though both campaigns have slowed down in the past few days, it begs the question as to whether 6mm sci-fi is just Epic focused or people are waiting for the next big thing. Dropfleet Commander by comparison had 3,918 backers while Polybersal and AoT have 170 and 212 respectively.

For the record I want both to succeed and I am a backer.

As the publisher of Polyversal, I'm excited about both campaigns. I too am backing Age of Tyrants and have been in discussion with John as well as Mark the designer. They seem like good guys and their product looks cool to me.

I think we need to get more previews out there (that's been the common request). So, along those lines, I stayed up super late to edit and post a second gameplay preview for Polyversal covering Orders, Activation, Command Range, Battlegroups and their formation, Units in and out of Command (attached / detached) and how Effectiveness of the Command Unit can change and what happens to units under their command when it does. So, I encourage you to check out the new video (direct link) also linked through our latest update, #5:

link

Please help fund both campaigns. More 6mm is a good thing.

Also, if you only initially looked at the campaign, I encourage you to check out the changes and additions we've made since we launched. Here's the main project page: link

Yes, we've hit a bit of a lull, but, most kickstarters hit that point. I'm confident the 6mm community will rally behind us and help us get the funding we need to get it out. It's a solid system. Lots of hard work by Ken and I to get it where it is today.

Thanks,
Byron
Collins Epic Wargames

I ran 4 games of Polyversal at Williamsburg Muster this past weekend and recorded first impressions from new players. It was awesome. Here's the quick feedback video:

YouTube link

JJMicromegas

Not sure, I think 6mm SciFi is more spread out, harder to get the word out for sure.

In my area no one touches Drop Zone stuff at all, the size really stopped most folks, as I have 6mm and 15mm I passed on it as well.

Like the AOT Infantry in the pics looks more 10mm than 6mm to me. When looking at them next to the 50mm tanks.
Not getting as it will not fit well with most of my stuff.
Some nice stuff but not sure what scale it is in.

Being able to use all my collection is what made me look at PolyV.

From what I have seen the rules will do what I want and do it fast with depth. I like that the larger units can stressed, lose weapons or mobility, while the lighter ones are stressed or killed off.

I hope it makes it as is, as the tool to make My unit with My pic will rock, and be great for Con games.

Thanks Lee, me too! And yes, that will be nice to have a game piece that shows your painted miniature on it, customized by you… very good at cons for identification as well.