"Nap Austrian Grenadiers?" Topic

Hi,

I am doing up some Napoleonic Austrians for Wagram 1809. I cant seem to find out if Austrian units had attached Grenadiers & Jaegers or if the units were seperate unto themselves. It looks like they used full grenadier and Jaeger units and the Fusiliers were on there own as well.

Is this so?
Thanks in advance.

In my reading, the grenadiers combined into grenadier battalions. Archduke Charles led some into a counterattack, as I recall.

Jaeger units were usually in the Advance Guard divisions of the corps but after the corp arrangement was given up, I don't know.

Baisicly grenadiers were taken from their parent units and grouped into grenadier battalions of 6 companies each. These were then useually brigaded togeteher. In 1809 ther were 9 Jaeger battalions of 6 companies each. Teses were attached to lead divisions to act as skirmishers. The Grenz infantry provided additional skirmishers. There were 13 regular Grenz regiments in 1809 each with 2 field battalions of 6 companies. These were troops who normally served on the border with the Ottoman Empire. There were 4 other Grenz regiments that were considered irregular.

The Osprey books are very useful quick references.

Grenadiers and Jagers operated in separate units (ie: not within the line units). Rusty is correct in what he said, based upon my research in raising the same Austrian Army/time period.

Hope it helps.

Tom Dye
GFI

Just to clarity, Austrian units did not have light or jager companies as with other armies. As indicated in the previous posting jagers were seperate units generally in the advance guard or other such formations. However, I have seen OBs where they are also represented in formations. Generally the jagers operated in one or two company formations. I cannot recall ever seeing the operate as completed battalions. This was very much like the rifle formations in the British army.

Twowheatons - are you not confusing regular and Freikorps jagers? As far as I am aware the regular jager units always fought as a complete battalion in the army or corps/column advanced guards. The references to one or two company detachments may refer to freikorps units such as the independent tyrolean jager units of the revolutionary wars which were distributed among infantry brigades to boost skirmishing ability. In 1805 the 2 companies of the volunteer 'Vienna Jagers' are always shown on Austerlitz OBs, despite the fact that modern research suggests they issed the battle. In 1805, incidently, there were only 3 regular jager battalions and the OBs show that it was possible for them to operate as half-battalions. in 1809 there were a wide variety of volunteer units raised, many of which took a 'jager' title ( for a good list see 1809 - a Year At War by C. A. Sapherson, a priceless reference for a wargamer). At Wagram can be found the Lobkowitz Jager and Watrich Jager (1 EKL) - there were others and while they tended to be the best-equipped, brightest and most enthusiastic of the landwehr, with a larger cadre of trained soldiers in most cases, they were not up to the standard of the regular 1 - 9 jager Battalions.

Each Austrian regiment also had 2 grenadier companies, ith a total strength of approx 230. In wartime these were grouped with the grenadiers of other units to form 4 or 6 company battalions.In 1809 these units were assigned to Army reserve corps or divisions and did not necessarily serve with the army of their parent unit. Only after 1809 was the 'grouping' made permanent - until then the battalions were formed on an ad-hoc basis as the army mobilised. The exception to this was 1805 - look for a thread about the Austrians in 1805 from a few days back and a post from Dave Hollins explains all about those.

sorry - forgot to mention that a full list of grenadier battalion names and 'groupings' can also be found in Sapherson. Back when I got it it was published by Raider Games (Leeds, UK). I don't kno if they still exist or who mght be publishing Saphersons work now.

I think Raider was taken over by Caliver a few years ago.

Grenadier companies had been with their parent units originally and in the early 1790s are often found in two co divisions with the a/guards, where they provided the "stiff line" to exchange volleys with the enemy after they had been roughed up by skirmishers (Grenzers and f/korps) or in hte formalised battalions drawing two or three divs together. All three 1790s jaeger units were freikorps (Tyrolean/German/Walloon), fighting alongside the other Freikorps, who varied from Balkan volunteers to French emigres.

From 1796, Grenadiers are massed in the reserve and that was always the case afterwards. Freikorps and Grenzers made up the a/guards and troops allocated to light tasks. In 1798, these Freikorps are massed into Light Battalions until 1801, although the Jaeger stay in their battalions. The Jaeger at this stage tend to be broken up into divs and allocated to various units, including small corps on special missions and the like. In 1801, the surviving Jaeger are massed into IR64, which is broken up in 1808 into divs as the cadres for the nine battalions, which did fight both as divs in the advance and rearguards or as full battalions, as they had the rifle div and two carbine divs. The Vienna Jaeger were not at Austerlitz. In 1809, the Lobkowitz were a volunteer unit from Prague and seem to have been 4 cos strong, while 1st Battalion ACL were also known as the Waltrich Jaeger under Major Waltrich, but both fought as full units.

In 1805, the Grenadiers were formed up as the first battalion of each regt, but were still usually massed into a reserve. In 1806, they reverted to their old battalion arrangement. Only in 1805 did they carry their regt Leibfahne - otherwise it was a single spare Ordinarfahne.

I stand corrected - however I note that Rothenberg in 'Napoleons great Adversaries' refers to jagers as 'being equipped with short carbines for the first two ranks, while the third rank and all NCOs had short rifles' - ie a mix of the two weapons in each company rather than rifle or carbine companies. was he mistaken or was he describing an old or alternate arrangement?

I don't like to go too hard on Rothenberg as it is the only palce to start, but there are a lot of errors in it. He is just confusing the 1807 arrangements with the different weapons. The NCOs had used a Kurzgewehr in the 18th century and so, that is influencing what he is saying too.

Thats a shame really - the main problem with rifles was the relatively slow rate of fire. Mixing weapons to give riflemen their own 'screen within a screen' of light, handy and faster firing carbines would have been an ingenious solution, possibly.

No - the IR64 troops were all rifle-armed and hence the rifle armed div as a cadre for each Jaeger battalion. It is not something you would be able to mantain if casualties rose, since it takes a specific skill to use rifles. These battalions were tasked abopve all with dealing with bad ground - woods, villages and the like. However, it does appear that the two companies from 1st Jaeger, who escaped to joined the main army on the Wagram ridge were one of each.