"Organisation of Royalist Infantry at the Battle of Stratton" Topic

At the battle of Stratton link did the Royalist infantry operaate in separate units of shot and pike or were they in the more typical mixed units?

Why would their operation at Stratton be any different to that in any other Civil War battle? Typical mixed units.

The question might be asked because of how that article phrases certain troop actions for what the pike or shot did during the battle.

@Major B- the link from OP does contain a reference to "Berkeley's musketeers" (rather than Berkeleys foot or Berkeleys regimrnt.) It does give the impression that there may have been at least one functional unit consisting of shot only. Given the small number of Parliamentary cavalry compared to Royalist cavalry, it is not inconceivable that this was the case.

Berkeley's musketeers could, of course, have been a detached unit of 'Commanded shot'. This was typically done in support of horse.

The question might be asked because of how that article phrases certain troop actions for what the pike or shot did during the battle.

the link from OP does contain a reference to "Berkeley's musketeers" (rather than Berkeleys foot or Berkeleys regimrnt.) It does give the impression that there may have been at least one functional unit consisting of shot only.

This article is from Wikipedia, right? The single most reliable source of information on the Internet?

The English Heritage Battlefield Report on Stratton quotes "Bellum Civile. Hopton's Narrative of his Campaign in the West 1642-1644", Hopton's eye-witness account, thus:

"It fortuned that on that Avenew where Sir Bevile Grenvile advanc'd in the head of his Pikes in the way, And Sir Jo: Berkeley ledd on the muskettiers on each syde of him, Major Generall Chudleigh with a stand of Pikes charg'd Sir Bevile Greenvile so smartliek, that there was some disorder, Sir Bevile Greenvile, in person overthrowen, but beingpresently relieved by Sir Jo: Berkely and some of his owne officers, hee reenforc'd the charge and there tooke Major Generall
Chudleigh prisoner…"
PDF link

From this it is clear that Berkeley's musketeers were advancing on each side of the pike block commanded by Grenville and thus were fighting in the typical mixed unit formation of the Civil War.

If anything, it might raise the question whether the Parliamentarians were fighting in mixed units, since it mentions Chudleigh leading a "stand of pikes" but makes no mention of accompanying musketeers. However absence of evidence is not evidence of absence…

Some links – the first is an English Heritage report into the battlefield, and the battle itself; the other is a "Pike & Shot" game which gives one indication of how the Royalists MAY have attacked.

Not sure if they are any more help, but the former does mention that the Parliamentarians used distinct units of shot to annoy the Royalists prior to the battle, and that the latter replied in kind.

PDF link

YouTube link

The question might be asked because of how that article phrases certain troop actions for what the pike or shot did during the battle.

the link from OP does contain a reference to "Berkeley's musketeers" (rather than Berkeleys foot or Berkeleys regimrnt.) It does give the impression that there may have been at least one functional unit consisting of shot only.

This article is from Wikipedia, right? The single most reliable source of information on the Internet? .

The initial poster was asking a question, it is not that he was necessarily accepting the article as fact. At least your second post provided an answer to an inquiring mind or more, thank you. And Maximus also alludes to reason why even reading the document that has been linked is more helpful when read thoroughly. I hope your day is good overall.

It's a small engagement; we're looking at descriptions of small units in something below the level of a major action (say Edgehill or Naseby). We are seeing the interaction of musket and pike in a way that descriptions of major actions are less likely to. 'Berkeley's musket' might well be forward; it does not mean that they are independent of the shot.

According to ECW Gaming Scenarios, Vol 2 (Partizan Press), the royalist regiments were brigaded together in columns/divisions of 2 regiments in the standard fashion: pike in centre, flanked by muskets.

As Stratton is an early battle the royalist will be struggling with the 2 shot to 1 pike they be lucky to be at 1 shot to 1 pike.
As there is a limited number of Parliamentarian cavalry, the Royalist will be able to "draw forth your shot" as in Barriffe and Hexham, this bring the shot forward of the pike line, this will utilize the limited number of musketeers at there disposal.

the Royalist will be able to "draw forth your shot" as in Barriffe and Hexham, thus bringing the shot forward of the pike line, this will utilize the limited number of musketeers at their disposal.

Yes, but did they actually do so at Stratton?

As its a wargame, not a re-enactment, the players should have the option to use a variety of historical deployments, regardless of the fact that the original battle's detailed are not fully known. IMHO.

I like that approach- I am all for it.

Agree with the last 2 posts. And Hopton's account does not prove one way or another how the Royalists deployed and fought. Berkeley was a regimental colonel. We don't and will never know whether his unit was combined with others in one battalia or if his musketeers were 'commanded' and deployed separately from his pikes.

There's a useful booklet on Stratton by Peachey but most of the relevant information has been incorporated in the Partizan publication – at the end of the day, it's your choice how to interprete the sparse evidence available.

Berkeley was a regimental colonel.

According to this site:

"In 1642 he joined the Marquess of Hertford at Sherborne, and was sent into Cornwall with the rank of commissary-general to act under Sir Ralph Hopton as lieutenant-general. The royalist forces defeated, in May 1643, the Earl of Stamford at the battle of Stratton, with great loss of baggage and artillery, and pursued him as far as Wells. In this affair Sir John distinguished himself, and was now made commander-in-chief of all the royalist forces in Devon."
link

and according to this site:

" In 1642 as Commissary-General, he secured nearly all of Cornwall for teh Royalists. He was General of the Royal forces in Devon"
link

So hardly just a regimental colonel.

Mea Culpe, that comes of what happens when you write in haste – he raised a regiment for the King but was rather more important than that, as you say. Rather dodgy looking chap I always thought!

But his, and Grenvile's, senior rank, and the fact the account specifically refers to pikes in one command and shot in the other, suggests that, unusually, they may have operated separately from each other on this occasion.

But his, and Grenvile's, senior rank,

Grenville OTOH was only a regimental commander

"Grenville responded to the King's commission of array in 1642 and raised a regiment of Cornish foot."
link

As the commnader of the regiment, his place would naturally be with the pike block. The fact that the primary source describes Berkeley "ledd on the muskettiers on each syde of him," does not necessarily imply that they were operating separately. If they were operating independently then there would be no need to be "on each syde of him".

IMHO the implication is that Berkeley was in overall command of the whole formation and that Grenville was subordinate to him in command of the pike block.

It is however only an implication and sadly we cannot be certain.