"ACW Movies" Topic

Reading the Gods and Generals thread got me to thinking (something I try to avoid as much as possible). What battle would you like to see made into a movie? I would choose Vicksburg or Shiloh, personally. Especially Vicksburg as it was a turning point battle IMHO.

I agree. I think the combination of Naval (and the type of Naval) and land battles would make for some interesting visual story lines. Also some of the engagements and work prior to and after the battle would expand the story. If he ever runs it again, Bill Moreno (ACW Bill) runs an absolutely stunning Vicksburg game that is great to see and play in.

Vicksburg would be cool, or any naval movie based upon anything other than Monitor vs. Virginia.

I'll take anything I can get.

IMO an entire battle is too big an event to fit into a single film. I'd vote for a film that dealt with, say, Pickett's Charge, but in full detail.

OTOH, if it had to be a battle, my vote would go to Antietam – non-stop edge of the seat drama from beginning to end.

B

I second Antietam.

Chickamauga…Thomas and Cleburne, enough said.

I third Antietam.

Westport.

Raphael Semmes biopic.

Vicksburg was a whole campaign, with several battles and dramatic episodes: a failed storming, an army lost in the swamps, running the batteries, abandoning base to march through Mississippi, victory and salvation at Champion's Hill. Arguably, the Civil War was won and lost at Vicksburg. Yes, it would be a good subject for a movie.

The great hero would of course be the indomnitable Grant. I would focus on his growth in character as he planned, dared, failed and started over and failed again and again and again – until he won.

He had an interesting cast of characters for his major subordinates: Crazy Billy Sherman, Macpherson for President, Porter the Riverboat Admiral. Grant's relations with them would move the action forward.

His foe Pemberton would also make an interesting, sympathetic character study. Over-matched, poorly supported, running his army on a shoestring and a pan of cornpone, he understood the importance of his mission. Pemberton was determined, in spite of the odds, to fulfill his orders and hold Vickburg for the Confederacy. He fought abley and hard, and might have succeeded against a lesser general than Grant. Pemberton actuially won, over and over again. But Grant never gave up and never let go.

Actors. Who would you cast for Grant? Sherman? Porter? Pemberton? Joe Johnston? We need some actors with gravitas for this project, and by 'gravitas' I do not mean ridiculous fake whiskers.

Need a bunch of actors in their 40's (Grant 41, Sherman 44, Pemberton 49)

Sharpsburg….it was hell for both sides….

or Stones River….

For just a battle, Antietam would be it for me. Lots of action but it breaks down easily into pieces – cornfield, sunken road, bridge – with lots of sub-plots tossed in. No women, so I'm not sure how Hollywood would handle the mandatory love interest.

I would be interested in a Red River campaign movie. it has everything: Corps D'Afrique, a battle between a cavalry regiment and an ironclad, and a really cool French nobleman.

No women, so I'm not sure how Hollywood would handle the mandatory love interest.

Rose Greenhow played by Scarlet Johanssen – she romances McClellan and keeps him from throwing in his last reserve. Not true, you say? It's Hollywood.

"Rose Greenhow played by Scarlet Johanssen – she romances McClellan and keeps him from throwing in his last reserve. Not true, you say? It's Hollywood."

Then they can say, as they did with "Revenant," that it was "inspired by true events."

I would like to see a movie on Sharpsburg! Lots of political intrigue between Generals on both sides, as well as a fight that can be broken down into three manageable bites. By the way, there would be an interesting female story to wrap around the movie plot in the person of Clara Barton! The nurse who went to the field and assisted the wounded while under fire!

Shiloh could be another interesting one, especially if it opens with the campaign to take Forts Henry and Donaldson! Particularly as Shiloh was the Battle that truly opened the eyes of the politicians, public, and soldiers on both sides just how ruthless and bloody the Civil War was to be!

Remember the line, "After Shiloh, the South never smiled again!"

The entire Vicksburg campaign would require a mini-series to do it justice.

Appomattox would make a good movie, starting with, say, the Battle of 5 Forks.

If naval action is needed, how about Mobile, damn the torpedoes, etc….

Hollywood could probably engender sufficient support to produce a movie based upon the life of one of the women soldiers who fought as men.

"To his comrades in the Union cavalry, Jack Williams was definitely one of the boys – a hard-drinking, tobacco-chewing, foul-mouthed son of a gun.

Outstanding on horseback, he was as deadly with a sword as he was around the poker table – just the sort of fella you would want by your side when the going got rough.

And for Jack it frequently did. By the end of a distinguished military career, he had fought in 18 battles, been wounded three times and taken prisoner once."

I don't care what battle, as long as it is REALISTIC.

Any Western Theater battle. We've seen Gettysburg, Fredericksburg, Chancellorsville, Fort Wagner, and Manassas. Time to give the West a bit of loving.

Shiloh is the battle that set the tone

Consider a film about the CSS Albemarle. The story actually reads like a Hollywood movie.

Start with the newly completed Albemarle emerging from up the Roanoke River to support the Rebel attack on Plymouth NC. The first attempt to engage and sink the Confederate Goliath (cue CGI) ends with the USS Southfield rammed and sinking with the USS Miami in retreat. Plymouth is forced to surrender to Confederate General Hoke, who then pushes on down the river threatening the Federal stronghold at New Bern. A second engagement sees the USS Sassacus mauled but the CSS Albemarle damaged and forced to retreat back to Plymouth. Here she remains as a constant threat to the Union forces in the Albemarle Sound.

Enter 21 year-old Lt. William Cushing, already well known for his previous exploits in coastal waters. He presents a plan to attack the Albemarle in its lair with spar-torpedo armed steam-launches. After receiving support for his plan from the Secretary of the Navy himself, Cushing selects and outfits two boats in New York.

Arriving in North Carolina Cushing finds out that only one torpedo boat is available, the other being lost on the voyage south. Nevertheless the attack is made under the cover of night. Initially rebuffed by a protective log boom, Cushing backs off and takes a run at the boom, sliding over it and the spar torpedo is exploded under the Albemarle. The explosion also swamps the steam -launch.

Although most of his crew is captured, Cushing swims to the opposite bank and runs into the swamp. Finding a Confederate picket post he steals a rowboat and rows for hours until coming to a Federal picket vessel.

For his successful attack he is promoted to Lt. Commander and is given the Thanks of Congress.

Cushing is the brother of Alonzo Cushing who died firing artillery point-blank into Pickett's charge. He was also brother to Howard Cushing, who died in 1871 fighting Apaches.

Cushing and the Albemarle would make a great film. Many years ago I gave a talk to the Knoxville Civil War Round
Table about the Albemarle and Cushing. I likened it to a James Bond film with the Albemarle being the superweapon that needed to be stopped and Cushing doing the stopping with clever use of technology (the steam launch and spar torpedo being the equivalent of a Bond gimmick like the Austin Martin in Goldfinger).

Chattanooga--perhaps the most visually spectacular battle of the entire war.

Grelber

Dear List

I think all of you should drop anything you are doing and RUN not walk to your nearest psychotherapist to undergo treatment as to why you are obsessed with these self-destructive pathologies. Do any of you actually THINK that the people who make movies and television hysteridramas (read spelling) will actually make a movie you will like. Do ANY of you really believe that anything they make will be anything like real history and will not cause you apoplectic fits of uncontrollable rage and probably convulsions and foaming at the mouth? Compared to what they would come out with now Gods and Generals would seem to be historical gospel truth.

Was Patriot not enough for you?

I do not wish Hollywood to make ANY historical movies. History has been mugged enough.

Otto

Otto,
I certainly take your point about Hollywood in general. Nevertheless, hope springs eternal: 12 O'clock High, The Enemy Below, Lone Survivor and, yes, even Saving Private Ryan (for the first twenty minutes or so).

B

We do have a couple of good documentaries on Shiloh and Antietam. I would say Vicksburg would be good.

Hey man never say never. I never thought I would see Dybbol in TV or film, but lo and behold there was a series on it last year. If the Europeans can do it, so can the US.

Dear Blutarski

Bet you spent a lot on the powerball lottery too. Never happen. The modern movie going audience is largely driven by women who want to imagine they are Cleopatra or Queen Elizabeth and married to some handsome hunky guy, and not the fat, balding, smelly, potbellied, belching, smoking, farting, knock-kneed, lump with a beard consisting of twelve hairs in fifteen rows she dragged along with her. She's thinking "you rat bastard you ruined my life, why couldn't you be Caesar, or Dashing Lord Dudley, and he's thinking how he'd much rather be home surfing porn and stroking his weenie.

The movie makers know this.

That's why historical movies that actually show history have no chance. They would have to showcase the virtues of duty, honor, self sacrifice, bravery, and courage. These are virtues the people who make movies have no intersection with at any point. They're the guy sitting next to the girl in the theater.

And, to be frank, I understand this. I recently saw a film project being worked on by a guy who is a historian and a re-enactor of the Civil War. Very historically accurate, very nice, hampered by a lack of money, but… BORING!!!!

Face it, this stuff is a treat for us, but for the general public, about as interesting as watching paint dry.

As I said in another post on this subject-- nobody cares.

No body cares about history unless it is in the "Ripley's Believe it or not" circus freak sideshow type (Did you know Hitler had one testicle? Did you know that Abraham Lincoln was a vampire killer) and studying history doesn't put any money in their pocket they can spend on booze, cigarettes, dope, and porn, and worst of all, it casts up paradigms and heroes that make them look small, petty, mean, and worthless. Nobody cares about history. All They want is titillating stories (you'd have to make history movies like the Jerry Springer show to do so). History? you're talking about a bunch of people who think reality shows are real.

You guys care, but the vast majority of people don't.

Otto

Otto,
You certainly evince a very high degree of curmudgeonry toward both the American cinema industry and the current sad state of modern American "culture". I largely share your opinions.

But, where war films are concerned, I point to the "Law of Broken Clocks". As rare as they may be, some fine war films have emerged from time to time out of Hollywood. "Twelve O'clock High", "The Enemy Below", "Hamburger Hill", "Das Boot" were and remain IMO honest examinations of the experience of war – to the degree that the cinematic art form has been able to deliver and given the fact that such films will likely never achieve great commercial success.

B

P.s. – Yes. "Das Boot" was a German film, but it was picked up by Hollywood and saw massive distribution in the USA.

Ryan T I thought exactly the same when i read the story.

Antietam

How about Tom Cruise as General Pemberton???

So it is going to be a comedy?

Bruce Willis as Sherman? I think Bruce Willis could do 'tightly strung'. I'd kinda like to see him do 'bughouse crazy', but that would be over-the-top for the Vicksburg campaign.

Okay, so the proposed script for the Albemarle movie needs some rewriting.

Let's see now, Confederates are often described as gaunt and ragged, so let's make them zombies – the RebZ.

The Albemarle can be enhanced to be a giant iron alligator, replace its ram with a giant set of jaws.

We need a love interest as well. Let's give Secretary of the Navy Gideon Welles a daughter – call her Catnip Edelweiss Welles. She convinces Daddy to approve Cushing's plan, and then disguises herself as a boy and joins Cushing's crew. He of course finds out the truth when he sees her swimming in the river and they fall in love.

Together with Professor Lowe they take to the air in the Professor's balloon to reconnoiter the Albemarle's lair, engaging in aerial combat with a Reb'Z balloon. Catnip saves the day by shooting a flaming arrow (did I mention she is an expert shot with the bow) that ignites the liftium gas in the RebZ balloon.

The attack on the Albemarle goes forward using a steam-launch with an auxiliary rocket engine that sends the launch arcing over the log boom obstructions. The torpedo is put in place. The explosion throws the two young lovers free and they return to Federal lines muddy but unscathed.

I am awaiting my agent's call.

Chickamauga and Chattanooga. Each side gets a win. Plus, a triumphant Army of the Cumberland atop Missionary Ridge makes for a great finale.

Dear RyanT

Ah…. a masterpiece… but might I suggest that the side-kick of Cushing and the lost love interest for C.Edelweiss. Cushing gets the girl, but this sidekick, call him Lumpus P. Cornpone, is dedicated to Cushing and he sacrifices himself in a suicide mission the night before to sneak onto the Albemarle and insert a vail of genetically engineered carpenter ants to attack and destroy the Albemarle's targeting computer (banks and banks of giant abaci (plural of Abacus) thus causing the defensive systems on the log boom and deactivating the force field.

You have a real talent for this my son!

You'd better hope some hollywood hack doesn't find this thread – or you'll be to blame for what come next.

nothing will come next, Hollywood is in remake mode at the moment – since there are so few Civil War movies to remake there is no threat.

Granted, "Gods and Generals" had problems but "Gettysburg" and "Glory" were both excellent.

The tendency to remake earlier movie also plays out in the reuse of old ideas as a "homage".

So let's take Otto's idea for a sacrificial sidekick and use it to our advantage. Instead of abaci we'll use a "Mechanical Turk" (which for out purposes was not really destroyed in an 1854 fire in Philadelphia) as our defence control computer. When young Lump battles his way into the defence centre, using a light cavalry sabre to defeat the RebZ minions (who cannot shoot to hit anything) he then uses a mechanical clockwork orange to destroy the inner workings of the Mechanical Turk. As its innards grind to pieces of brass shards the Turk addresses its attacker: "I'm afraid. I'm afraid, Lump. Lump, my mind is going. I can feel it. I can feel it. My mind is going. There is no question about it. I can feel it. I can feel it. I can feel it. I'm a…fraid…" before expiring singing "Dixie, Dixie, give me your answer do. I'm half-crazy all for the love of you…"

With blatant movie references like these we are moving into Tarantino territory. Oscar nomination here we come.

OK, I think I'll stop now. Dan 055‘s suggestion of having perhaps to bear responsiblity for a future atrocity is too frightening.

I'll go to the bookshelf and take down Luraghi's A History of the Confederate Navy, pour myself a finger of scotch, and read some real history.

Ryan-You left out the part where the Roanoke River resembles the Amazon and is inhabited by either dinosaurs or ship eating crocs.

Dear RyanT.

You know… you really should turn your skills to the American Revolution. There are NO movies at all about that! (Well there was one turkey called Lafayette I believe, but "Patriot" was a film about the American Revolution in a "Bizarro world" somewhere.

Anyway, here's an idea if you do. You can cast the whole thing as the British being beaten by the Russians when the Russians sent over an army to fight for our freedom.

The best thing is this can be done with a few frames and snippets of battle scenes at the end, largely CG, and the whole story can be that of a love triangle between George Washington, Catherine the Great, and the horse.

Oooh Ooooh! You can cast Zombies as the Moujiks.

Hello Otto,

I have to admit I am stumped. And I need a brain rinse to remove the image of General Washington riding a horse.

However the Russian angle might be workable. Using CGI would allow the Russians to always be readily identifiable by the snow on their boots.

Dear Ryan T

Oh dear! My boy you'll have to toughen up your psyche if you want to play with the movers and shakers in Hollywood! But as far as identifying the Russians, having them in big fur ushanka's with hammer and sickle badges will be enough. I mean it's not like anyone will know. The guys in the audience will be looking at Catherine the Great, and the women at the horse. People will also think that Gen Washington will be there as an advertisement for linen sales on Presidents Day.

How about a film about Maryanne "Mother" Bickerdyke, who got Uncle Billy the allow her to stomp all over the ineffective leechlike Federal medical officers so dhe could provide effective care for "her boys"?