"Does reporting recasters to Ebay really make a difference?" Topic

I've found an ebay seller that certainly seems to be recasting figures. I haven't seen the figures in person yet, but the seller has sold multiple lots of the exact same figures over a number of months.

& some of the lots are old, pretty rare GW figures that were sold in sets. & the seller is selling lots of 10 figures of each individual figure. They would have had to have 50 copies of the set in order to be able to sell what they have.

Has anyone heard of Ebay removing sellers for recasting, especially if the figures are out of production?

If I go through the effort of reporting this to Ebay, will it really make a difference?

Thanks

I would expect nothing to be done. Even if they contact him, he will deny that he is recasting and say they were from his personal collection, that he bought excess stock from a store that went out of business, etc. You can't prove he is recasting.

report to the company involved its there copy right and sales he is stealing

report to the company involved its there copy right and sales he is stealing

It's their copyright indeed.

I have heard of others being stopped but do not know if it was true though.

Right eBay will do nothing

I know of one selling old Grenadier Traveller and Star Wars figures

It doesn't seem to stop them. There's one seller who is pirating AB figures and another who I think might be recasting Minifigs.

The OFM reported a recaster to Foundry a few years ago and was told to mind his own business.

I've had success in a professional capacity for a client on a slightly different point, so I should imagine if you're the copyright owner and prepared to do all of the legwork and get lawyered up, you'd have some success (albeit you'll have to do it all again when they re-start under a different alias).

But an individual 'do gooder' – I don't fancy your chances.

Hereis a big paragraph.
Now and again pirates come up on E bay. We are always very grateful to those who report them to us. Firstly we complain to Ebay as the owner of the copyright and Ebay is good about removing those items. Then we go after the individual with a cease and desist along with an offer to call upon them if they are in the UK. we then often put them on our website if they do not comply which gives them some embarrassment.
The problems with this are various.
1. They are often poor folk who do it to make some money and are thus supported by their friends and club as they are "only doing it a bit"
2. Some war gamers follow the "it may be a copy of your stuff but it is an allegation and I am an expert on law so it's OK"
3. some gamers insist it's OK because the figures are out of production or quite expensive. Therefore they have a right to copy.
4. These pirates often make every poor quality pieces which helps put people off them eventually.
5. Many pirates claim that they have changed it a bit so it is OK. They do not understand the "or any part thereof" bit of the law, they tend to be a bit dim all round.

There is a popular myth about Games workshop being the big legal power, but does anyone know the name and details (name, date, outcome)of any successful prosecution?

So yes we do go after them with a degree of success.
They damage the hobby, steal from makers and smell too! they also tend to be the same people who park across driveways, steal items from ASDA and molest small animals!

martin

Two years ago re-caster was selling on TMP.
I reported him to Bill and his account was locked.
At the same time I also reported his activities to Front Rank, The Perry's and Calpe miniatures. They all thanked me.
He then went to E-Bay. I reported him to the above named companies again and he disappeared.
I would surmise that one or more of them contacted E-Bay and he was removed, similar to what Martin has experienced as he seems to have had some success with this.

I would contact the manufacturer and get them to contact E-Bay.

We are being pirated in China and E-bay won't even reply to my e-mails anymore.
I write to pirates directly and tell any customer who will listen. But E-bay themselves appear not to care less.

Nic EUREKA MINIATURES

I wouldn't depend on E-Bay to do anything to stop recasters.

Time to turn to the Royal Navy, Nic. It has a long history of putting Chinese pirates out of business.

I have had a good response from GW in the past – especially when I sold some of the halflings through eBay as an experiment and one buyer immediately relisted the Napoleon figures as rare GW figures that he wasn't sure where he got them from.

He tried to buy more from me and got annoyed when I blacklisted him and refused. GW got him banned from eBay.

Mike

The message is "please report pirates". We are very grateful for any help!
Notice that no pirates have come on to the message board to refute my allegations, surely an indication that they will burn?

thanks

martin

We are always very grateful to those who report them to us

We are the same, if you notice our items please report it to us. It is possible that Ebay will take no action of a third party report, because technically only the copyright holder has the right to instigate any action (and it is just possibly that you are simply a disgruntled individual who wants to make trouble by getting a competitors listings removed).

As the copyright holder we have much more clout to contact Ebay and report a breach of our rights. We would also seek to contact the seller directly in a legal sense.

1. They are often poor folk who do it to make some money and are thus supported by their friends and club as they are "only doing it a bit"

400 people doing 'a bit' adds up to rather a lot. Every 'bit' is a loss of sale to a company who owns the original right.

That said:
(a) there is nothing to stop you making, moulding and casting your OWN stuff
(b) you are welcome to modify items you have bought any way you wish. What you cannot do is cast things made with bits that belong to us, except where we may explicitly permit it.

It's really not rocket science to understand.

2. Some war gamers follow the "it may be a copy of your stuff but it is an allegation and I am an expert on law so it's OK"

I can quote them the relevant section of the CDPA if that helps. The part on the maximum possible fines, including ordering up and destruction, often makes them rethink it. And bear in mind that you are often not protected by any limited liability, so you are going to be defending your re-casting operation with your savings and your house…

3. some gamers insist it's OK because the figures are out of production or quite expensive. Therefore they have a right to copy.

OOP is not a right to copy. The copyright remains with the original author, unless assigned (or in the course of employment, or whatever the contract permitted). Remember that an OOP item is rarer. Therefore its value increases. Therefore you are not only stealing the value, but you are risking a much bigger proportion of your house. :-)

4. These pirates often make every poor quality pieces which helps put people off them eventually.

Casts of casts are easier to spot. We will surf ebay and even purchase items that we think may be recasts (often through third parties so you cant tell its us). We can all make an M4 Sherman using the same set of plans, but we are all doing so by hand, so every master is unique and has features that can be recognised. That means if you are casting it not only is it a poorer quality cast (a photocopy of a photocopy)… but we can also identify it…

5. Many pirates claim that they have changed it a bit so it is OK. They do not understand the "or any part thereof" bit of the law, they tend to be a bit dim all round.

Martin does have a way with words. Altering it a bit does not give you a right to produce it. Modify it for yourself by all means, but you start producing it and we are highly likely to find out about it.

There is a popular myth about Games workshop being the big legal power, but does anyone know the name and details (name, date, outcome)of any successful prosecution?

No, but I have gone up against GW before and they do come at you pretty heavily with letters from a solicitor that you know would cost an absolute fortune to try and defend. You might win (assuming you were right) if you really really pushed it, but it would cost you an absolute fortune to get to that point and there is no 100% guarantee of a win in a court of law, so it carries a risk that you would lose your house… and probably the dog. They know that, which is why they can afford to push hard. Their way is to get you to back down by scaring you. But for the reasons above when it comes to recasting…. they are right… and they know it…. and they go all the way if necessary because they can afford to.

So yes we do go after them with a degree of success.
They damage the hobby, steal from makers and smell too! they also tend to be the same people who park across driveways, steal items from ASDA and molest small animals!

This is all true.

And this is a relatively small industry.

And we do talk to each other.

Thanks all for the responses. The seller is in Nevada.

Unfortunately, since my concerns about recasting are solely based on their sales, and not on seeing the actual figures, I'm hesitant to give a specific seller's name.

& while they mostly sell GW figures, about 25% of their sales are historical which would be very difficult to identify the manufacturer of.

Geoff I am intrigued abot GW taking you to court or threatening you. Surely a juicy story? i hope you won?

martin

Oh I suspect manufacturers and wargamers could quite quickly identify the manufacturer of the original figures

Two years ago re-caster was selling on TMP.

Was that the infamous Goblin Goodies? He started doing one-day auctions for awhile and eventually dropped off the radar. Not sure if Ebay or Foundry finally took notice/action but he stopped selling on Ebay at least under the Goblin Goodies name.

In my experience, no.

Some time ago, I reported a seller based in Poland for selling unfeasibly large quantities of rare, oop GW Lord of the Rings miniatures.

I received no reply from eBay, or from GW.

The message I took from this was that eBay didn't care so long as they received their cut, and as the figures were oop, GW didn't care that my genuine miniatures were being devalued, or that I was being exposed to the risk of inadvertently buying inferior, non- genuine recasts.