"Swiss Arquebusiers in 15mm" Topic

I finally finished the arquebusiers to screen my Swiss pike keil over the Christmas holidays, in time for a FOG-R game yesterday against a German States army.

The figures are from Khurusan, the same as most of those in the keil. Like the other Khurusan figures, they are quite slender (or realistically proportioned, compared with the stocky cartoon figures from most other manufacturers) and well detailed but maybe not the easiest figures to paint.

The Swiss banners are based on information from Massimo Predonzani's book on the battle of Cérisoles. He states that by 1525 infantry flags were 3.7x2.8 m. On the basis that 15mm (in reality 16-18mm ground to head) is about 1:100 I tried 37x28 mm but that looked far too big. For the pike block I reduced the flags to about 24x32 but even that seems big – to the extent that they interfere with the pikes in the third rank. If I had realised before basing just how big they would be, I would maybe have used a double-depth base for the centre of the keil and put all the flags on that. I further reduced the flag for the Aquebusiers to 20x27 mm – it still looks big but is rather more manageable. The Swiss flags were drawn using the basic drawing tools in Microsoft Excel (not an obvious choice, but I use spreadsheets a lot for work and it was to hand) and printed out on an inkjet.

Does anybody have other information on likely flag size for the Swiss in the 1520s and 30s?

One thing after painting all these Swiss – it will be a long time before I can face painting anything with lots of tiny stripes!

Midlander65
smallitalianwars.blogspot.co.uk

Impressive work! Should you ever feel the itch to paint up reinforcements a lot of Swiss troops wore dress that was a good deal less flamboyant than that worn by the wealthy veterans. Both the Schilling chronicle and Urs graf show men in non-striped clothing with no or limited slashing.

Flags were very large in this period, easily 3 meters to a side if the cloth was available but some banners were smaller as they were older, more traditional designs. Several of the Swiss cantonal banners depicted by Urs Graf fit the later description.
Several high-res battle scences by Altdrofter to be found on this blog link the top of the flags are usually in line with the tips of the upright pikes which fits well with known pike lenghts and flag sizes.
And the small banner of Zug depicted by Urs Graf

Thanks very much Daniel.

I intended these to represent the Swiss in the later Italian Wars, Pavia and after. I read that striped hose became more common and the stripes narrower with time: I think the Schilling Chronicle was 1513 and Urs Graff died around 1527, so maybe a stripe-free chronicle and some striped/some not with Urs Graff is consistent with that? I did about a quarter of the Pike block without any stripes but I got even more carried away with the arquebusiers and only did two without striped hose. I might paint another group with fewer stripes then mix and match. Actually, painting the stripes isn't so bad and certainly easier than painting lots of tiny crosses like the 1521 picture above!

The comments on large flags got me thinking. I would have thought these would be very hard to carry one-handed. Do you think these very large flags would actually have been fixed to pike shafts rather than the shorter one-handed flag staffs? The Ashmolean Pavia painting appears to show a flag on a pike (or at least a long two-handed pole) but it takes a number of liberties with scale and perspective so maybe isn't to be taken too literally. Do you think these very large flags would have been used by skirmishers also?

Thanks again,

Midlander65
smallitalianwars.blogspot.co.uk

Nice figures :)

There are certainly plenty of one handed flags shown in various pictures and not only were they expected to be able to hold them but to do the flag twirling still practiced in Italy and beyond. This link is a 17th century manual of flag usage. The flag is perhaps only 2 and a bit metres rather than 3 but show the amount of twirling expected. A slightly later manual says that the staff shold only be held in one hand in most circumstances but "but if the wind blow stiff, or there is a weakness or wearisomeness in the Ensign-bearer, then he may set the butt end against his waste and not otherwise ; and is to have but one hand upon his staff in any march whatever." link

Urs Graf made many prints of standard bearers:
Standard Bearer of Schaffhausen by Urs Graf
Standard Bearer of Solothurn by Urs Graf
Standard Bearer of St Gallen by Urs Graf
Standard Bearer of Appenzell by Urs Graf
Standard Bearer of Zug by Urs Graf
Standard Bearer of Glarus by Urs Graf
Standard Bearer of Schwyz by Urs Graf
Standard Bearer of Unterwalden by Urs Graf
Standard Bearer of Fribourg by Urs Graf
Standard Bearer of Basel by Urs Graf

All these with short staffs.

Druzhina
Swiss soldiers and characters in prints by Urs Graf

Short staffs and large flags were pretty much the standard in most countries at the time and one of the reasons why ensigns were picked mature men of strenght and ability. As with the Doppelsöldner forming the front ranks it was a job that could not be done by just anyone.

Towards the middle of the century the flags shrank a bit in height but remained rather long.

Skirmishers usually did not have flags with them as they were too exposed to loss in that role. The Swiss had tradition of carrying a "Schützenfahne" with their missile troops but IIRC the last of these are dated to the 1510's.

The typical position of the flags were deep inside the pike block were they were surrounded by men with polearms for protection. You would also find the office holders and senior nco's of the regiment clustered around the flags ready to take charge if the fight was so hard that the enemy reached the flags and their guard. (Meanwhile the captains were supposed to stand in the front rank while the lieutenants stood in the last rank to prevent all key officers being lost at the same time)

Thank you very much for the extra information on standard bearers. Large flags it shall be, but only for pike blocks.

I guess this means I'll be painting an extra Swiss arquebusier to replace the standard bearer – then that gives me a spare standard bearer so I will have to paint that second Swiss keil to use him!

My Landsknechts have rather smaller flags so I'll replace those at some point with larger ones – this is fairly simple to do as the flags poles are actually hollow tubes fitted over a thin steel wire. The extra info, particularly the emphasis on short staffs and holding one-handed has also made me re-think which figures to use for standard bearers – several of those I had set aside would be using two hands.

Interesting that this all reinforces the often made point that contemporary pictures are not photographs and must be treated with some caution. The Urs Graff prints show quite small flags (about 1.5m) and the big pike block above shows the banners waving above the tops of the pike (a very long arm to do that with a flag on a short staff). The Asmolean's Pavia print also shows small flags, one of them on a pike or long pole. Which to take at face value and which to recognise as artistic licence – that's the trick.

Daniel S: I have seen other people on here say you should write a book. If you do, please put me down to buy a copy.

Ian Heath has 14th century Swiss Schützenfahne in Armies of the Middle Ages, volume 1 (Does anyone know the sources for c to e?)
There were probably 16th century versions of these, for arquebus as well as crossbow.

Druzhina
Illustrations of Costume & Soldiers

Probably either the surviving orginals (The Swiss have a lot of those) or one of the "flag books" made to record flags & banners in case of loss to fire or old age.

There is at least one recorded 16th C example from 1512-1513 for the Zürich missile troops. Schützfahne/Schützfählein were connected to the Swiss use of separate units for missile troops, once integrated companies became the standard they disappeared and they do not seem to have been used by mercenary units to begin with, only by official cantonal troops.

" (Does anyone know the sources for c to e?)"

d is in Diebold Schilling, Amtliche Berner Chronik, vol. 1 link e.g pp. 100, 101, 141, p223. 223 is a bright yellow crossbow – perhaps the others have faded – some are very indistinct.

Also:
Basel p.199
Fribourg p.258
Zurich p.307 (no crossbow – Associated with shooters though).
Luzern p.349

Source for e. Zurich with crossbow at Diebold Schilling, Amtliche Berner Chronik, vol. 2 link

Here is a 1513 Zurich survival link

Thanks Swampster. Terrific work! By coincidence I was looking at the Murten/Morat campaign in Schilling's vol.3 yesterday.

Druzhina
16th Century Illustrations of Costume & Soldiers

Talking of flag books. one from Fribourg here
link
Various flags inc;. Burgundian, Landsknechte, Venetian and some which may have been taken at Pavia (1512, not '25) incl. French and Milanese. More detail here PDF link

Another here kept in Appenzell.
Amid the landscape pictures are various flags including Burgundian. The written description isn't as good as the Fribourg one but a PDF about the flags is here link The b+w pictures are useful to identify the pictures and match with the coloured versions. Some interesting flags – I'm intruiged by the 'Cento Diavoli' with a devil's head and Austrian shields – apparently the phrase is a curse – sort of 'May a hundred devils take you'. This link has a description but my German isn't good enough to work it out. A Google translate of another page says it was the flag of a South Tyrol 'Knight society' captured in 1406.

It was the flag of the Ritter von Schroffenstein, "Ritter" can be both plural and singular for knight(s) but in this case I think it is singular and refers to the knightly family holding the Schrofenstein castle in Tyrol. The Schrofensteiner held the castle from the 13th Century to 1546 when the family died out.

Swampster,
Do you have the link for the Appenzell coloured versions?

Druzhina
15th Century Illustrations of Costume & Soldiers

Sorry – I kept editing the post and must have got rid of it.

It is here link

"Both the Schilling chronicle and Urs graf show men in non-striped clothing with no or limited slashing."

Daniel, does that mean the more austere style of the late Medieval period is still current for Swiss infantry and that, for instance, the Perry line representing infantry of the late 15th century, can work for representing them in the 16th century?

Sadly no, the Swiss clothing in question had a "modern" cut, i.e high hose, short vams with large sleeves and so on.. It just lacked the extensive slashing and/or stripes found on the more flamboyant clothes.

This Reislaufer by Urs Graf only has slashes over the knees, otherwise the only flamboyant part of his gear is the hat.

Another Graf study of a swiss man, this time the knees are not visible but we can see undecorated vams (doublet) and probably undecorated hose. (Knees could be slashes, it is fairly common thing even when the rest of the dress is "modest" but unslashes knees are at least as common). Apart from the heavily pleated shirt and large hat his clothes lack the classic flamboyant details found on other depictions of Reislaufers.