"Save us from J.J. Abrams." Topic

After ruining the Star Trek Franchise, his next attempt is the new Star Wars movie. The movie was okay, but if you have seen "Episode IV: A New Hope" (the first Star Wars Movie) save your money. It is almost the same movie with touches of the now trendy "Hunger Games" formula. I heard this is the last Star Wars movie he is contracted to do. I hope that is true.

But it sure is doing great at the box office, so I admit I am in the very small minority. Back in 1977 I saw the movie five times and it was held over for six weeks with long lines every day.

When it went to TV, I could not help but watch it again and again. But not this new one. It is a good movie but not OMG good as the original. Basically a re-hash.

I agree with you. The movie seemed to take the same plot devices, scramble them up in a different order and then present them to you in a different way and context.

SPOILERS. DO NOT READ BEYOND THIS POINT IF YOU DON"T WANT TO KNOW DETAILS!!!

I always thought Han Solo was the kind of hero that would fade away. Instead, JJ killed him. It felt forced (no pun intended). It was also unnecessary.

Is a Death Star really the only thing the Dark Side can come up with?

Speaking of Dark Side, am I the only one who thought that the evil boss looked like Smeagol's dad? Seriously. The resemblance is uncanny.

I was also kind of annoyed at the fact that Rey managed to self-teach herself some Jedi Tricks. Really? Took Luke years of training under legendary master Yoda.

JJ likes to break stuff.

The action was good though. The characters played well off of each other. The funny parts melded nicely with the action and the movie flowed at a good, but not frantic, clip. It is well worth seeing. As for rating, I'd say it is better than the best of Episodes 1-3 but behind the worst of episodes 4-6. I am happy to have seen it on the big screen but would probably not watch it again.

SPOILER ALERT

About five or six years ago Harrison Ford was on Charlie Rose and Rose asked him if there was any chance of a Hans Solo movie. Harrison said that the character was done. He was too shallow. He tried to get George Lucas, to kill him off in Return of the Jedi.

So my guess is that it was in his contract that the character would be killed off. He probably threw away millions of dollars, from the sequels he would be in. But if your so rich already, it's not a thing.

My thoughts form another board post:

It was basically a rehash of "Star Wars: Episode IV, A New Hope (the first "Star Wars" movie) with the now trendy "Hunger Games" formula thrown in. It was okay but nothing like the first movie. The main characters are a bunch of teenagers. "Hunger Games."

The only character I cared about besides the original cast, was the guy who played the hot shot fighter pilot. I don't remember the character's name but he should have been the star hero of the movie. Not some teenage girl.

In 1977 it was at my local theater for six weeks with long lines everyday. I saw it five times. Watched it every time it was on TV. This new one, not so much. No desire to see it again. I guess it could have been worse, like the Star Trek debacle. If you saw the original Star Wars, then save your money.

Thanks for the warning.

I didn't read the spoilers, but what is it with Star Wars, that they need to keep rehashing stuff over and over?

Seems to me the writer(s) need to come up with more original material. Shouldn't be that hard in an entire universe, far, far, away…….

Sad, he/they are taking so many shortcuts in the name of blatant commercialism.

Hopefully, one day, someone else will do another epic story, and not succumb to that, or to make a Sci-Fi series filled with militant teddy bears so they suck in the children, too.

For once, I'd love to see something written for discriminating adults, and with appropriate themes.

Star wars was a rehash of hidden fortress anyway.

Solo should have died (and the falcon exploded) during Jedi. Ford didn't want to be stuck playing the role forever.
He finally got his wish.

SW also isn't written for adults. It's written for kids and with the amount of $$$ raked in by disney purely on the moichendising alone, they'll continue to churn them out.

I'll just watch what appeals and skip the others.

Just your opinions. I had no problem with the movie. Without giving it any thought, it was better than episodes 1-3 and better than episode 6.
I'm sure Disney studios hopes J.J. does more!

OBTW, Luke and Leia were 19 in episode 4.

Took Luke years of training under legendary master Yoda.

Actually….. /pendantic fanboy mode activate/
Remember that Luke skedaddliedoo'd off to Cloud City rather than finish his Yoda training.
So: actual training time?
Likely somewhere between one day and three weeks…

link
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carrie fischer shows her age! liked the movie.

Well, who woulda thunk that ex-Teletubby Po would grow into the top fighter pilot Poe.

Worst of the star wars movies, but still enjoyable.

Can't stand the non-canonical nature of the show. Whatever happened to Jaina Solo (and her lover Jagged Fel)? Is she Rey? What about the Imperial Remnant and everybody's favourite, Thrawn?

I LOVED THE NEW MOVIE. Sorry people here did not. But don't tell people not to go see it. I thought it was better than jedi by a long. I think some people just like to wine and moan. The film like any film has a few issues but so has every Star Wars movie. Seems to me if you don't like space fantasy full stop you will not like this movie. But if you feel that way why go see it any way. The film was bloody good. And did all I wanted it to.

I liked it quite a bit, it was a good old classical Sci Fi adventure (at least classical for a person born in 1981). The new characters were like-able for me and I thought there was enough new stuff that the rehashing did not feel too bad.

The only weakness of the film was the music for me. The leitmotifs were simply not enough.

Then again I am person who listens to every new Iron Maiden album, even though IM tend to keep to a specific style and experiment little. I see this new SW like that. Not original, but a classical theme with some little twist, competently done. Sometimes that is more than enough.

Yes, great fun and looking forward to the next two. As for throwing out the EU "Canon", well, whatever, most of it was rubbish anyway.

I will be very, very disappointed if Rey turns out to be yet another relative of one if the main characters though. How tedious that would be, but I suppose it is almost inevitable she'll turn out to be the unmemorable Siths sister or cousin. Perhaps they could rule the galaxy as brother and sister…

Saw it and thought it was okay. A couple of things bothered me though:

At the end of Jedi the Empire was overthrown and the Republic re-established. That being the case, what is The Resistance resisting?

Untrained girl beats super bad guy lord in saber fight, he's saved by lucky rift in ground.

Speaking of bad guy super dark side lord. How does Leia's child, raised beside uncle Luke, with training from birth, and Luke's example, become a baddie? Apparently people turn bad in this universe at the flip of a coin.

When I saw Leia I was reminded of Obi-wan's description of Darth in the first movie, "He's more machine now than man." I saw her and the first thing I thought was, "She's more plastic than woman, now."

Just my thoughts.

I'm so glad I didn't see the same film as you guys…. Loved it. ;-)

I thought the film was pretty good too. I also like the current Star Trek reboot and I think it's far better than the previous offerings that are just so dull. So JJ can make as many films as he wants, I'll watch 'em.

I think some people are just so hard to please sometimes. Why not wait until all three films are completed so you can see how the story pans out before you reach for the flamethrower.

I am of two minds. I enjoyed the film, basically; but I quite understand the complaints and comments I've read above.

Besides, knowing this group, if an old M60 tank showed up in the movie, we'd be discussing (arguing) paint patterns and what not.

Let it go, Luke.

JJ Abrams makes entertaining films. I just don't see them as great films.

The Star Trek reboots were good action films. They just weren't good Star Trek films.

The Force Awakens was enjoyable, even if we had seen it before (so much of it repeats the original). It was good enough that I'll go see the next one in the theaters but I doubt I'll re-watch this one.

I loved it too. It was the total nostalgia kick I was looking for. Plus, my son ,who is 8, also loved it so we had a total bonding experience seeing it together.

"Let it go, Luke."

Frozen/Star Wars crossover?

"Do you wanna build a Death Star…?"

SPOILERS AHEAD!

Frankly I don't think we would have had much different from anyone else directing – except perhaps Lynch!

Disney couldn't afford to mess too heavily or otherwise get too experimental with the franchise based on the amount of money they shelled out to acquire it and the risk of serious fan blow back and possible ensuing 'tanking at the box office'. Basically there's a check list
Light sabers
X-Wings
Millennium Falcon
Tie-Fighters
Star Destroyers
Storm troopers
Planet busting superweapon
Outnumbered rebels launching last ditch semi-suicidal attack on said weapon
Good Jedi
'Bad' Jedi
Aliens
Peril, Chases, Capture and Escapes

I though there was some deeper stuff going on, but I'm probably reading too much in to it! The fact the Ren is taking after his grandfather – just Anakin at his pre-Vader wettest! And that Snoke deferred to his non-Jedi commander rather than Ren. Some of the stuff in Rey's flash backs/precognition. The talk of an 'awakening' before Rey actually did anything, but after Fin spontaneously developed PTSD and his conditioning broke. It is only 'Star Wars' after all.

Spoiler Warning….

I can't shake a suspicion that Ren might turn out to be good (for a given value of good, at least….) He bangs on about completing Vader's work, but ultimately Vader's work was the destruction of the Empire, not the building of it….

It was goofy fun, just what Star Wars has been lacking since the ending scroll of Return of the Jedi (and that was a bit toooo goofy)

SPOILERS in reply Dn Jackson

"At the end of Jedi the Empire was overthrown and the Republic re-established. That being the case, what is The Resistance resisting?"

There was a visual encyclopedia out that explains this. Basically the Empire and New Republic duked it out for quite some time, until the decisive battle at the planet Ren starts from (Ergo the massive Star Destroyer wrecks). The Empire signed a treaty with the New Republic under which they divided the galaxy. The First Order is a hard core Imperialist faction (renegades) that broke away in anger over the treaty. The Resistance is funded by the Republic as a proxy war in order to slow down the First Order, while they try to figure out if they can move against it while not re-igniting war with the Empire. The Republics capital moves around so the First Order attack has not take out the Republic per se. This means that we might actually see the Empire in the next films, as it still exists.

"Untrained girl beats super bad guy lord in saber fight, he's saved by lucky rift in ground."

Remember that Kylo is not that much trained either. He got trained a bit from Luke, who was trained a bit by Yoda and Obi Wan Kenobi. I.e they are both amateurs. In the old trilogy natural aptitude seemed more of a deal than training.

"Speaking of bad guy super dark side lord. How does Leia's child, raised beside uncle Luke, with training from birth, and Luke's example, become a baddie? Apparently people turn bad in this universe at the flip of a coin."

I do not know, many probabilistic factors 1) terrible father figure 2) problematic family 3) a whole myth of a grand-father 4) the faaaaceee :p

Hope these help.

There was a visual encyclopedia…

Okay that explains a lot and was on the course detail more or less what I deduced excluding the continued existence of the Empire (which is rather interesting).

I agree with some of the others; I thought it was good. I wasn't there when ANH came out in 1977 (I was 2 at the time…). As for it being a rehash of ANH…sorry but I disagree. It was an homage to ALL of the OT IMHO. So they did the right thing there IMHO. I agree about the music though, just not engaging enough. I have to wonder if John Williams got the writing credit because of the reuse of some of his original themes? Nonetheless, looking forward to the next installment…!

Damon.

I rather liked the new movie. i really think a lot of perception comes form "what you grew up with". For example, my friends son (who is now 16) saw the Abrams Trek movies before seeing the old school trek movies and his take was that the old ones were not only boring and slowly paced, but their themes were also aimed at a totally different generation that he couldn't relate to.

As for SW:TFA, I like the new characters of Fin and Ray and that their "tropes" aren't rammed down your throat. Fin is very much like Han Solo, who was an Imperial Officer who disliked how non-humans were treated so he freed them and thus incurred Chewie's friendship and "life debt" (if that is still cannon). I also like that Ray is a strong and self sufficient female without constantly shouting out that she is and waving an agenda flag.

!!!!Spoiler!!!!

And to me the best part of the movie was watching my 11 year old daughters jaw drop several times, as well as seeing her reaction to Han Solo's exit. She shouted out "No!" and crushed both hands over her mouth and obviously just couldn't believe that they just did what they did, even though it was well telegraphed. She liked eps IV, V and VI, but this new one swept her away like none of the others could, exactly how I was swept away by the "original" trilogy. So, no matter what anyone else says, that alone makes this movie excellent to me, and I hope the next few can do that same!

I think one of the biggest issues is
those of us who watched awestruck the originals at aged 5 – 15 (approx.) aren't that age anymore…

There was a visual encyclopedia out that explains this. Basically the Empire and New Republic duked it out for quite some time, until the decisive battle at the planet Ren starts from (Ergo the massive Star Destroyer wrecks). The Empire signed a treaty with the New Republic under which they divided the galaxy. The First Order is a hard core Imperialist faction (renegades) that broke away in anger over the treaty. The Resistance is funded by the Republic as a proxy war in order to slow down the First Order, while they try to figure out if they can move against it while not re-igniting war with the Empire.

I liked the movie, but if they had put in 60 seconds of THIS… maybe when the heroes connected with the Resistance, it would have made it SO much better.

Well said, Damon. I saw it last night (in a PACKED theater on a TUESDAY, no less) and had a really good time, as did my wife and my buddy. It wasn't perfect, but no Star Wars movie ever has been. All the coincidences and happenstance would be unbelievable in any other film, but the source material of the old serials (which this one jumped back to, thankfully) makes that sort of stuff okay, I think.

J.J. did a very good job. I liked the new characters of Fin and Rey a lot and look forward to learning more about them and see them develop more. Poe was pretty wasted as a new Han since basically all he did was fly around yelling "WOOHOO!". BB-8 was a much better droid companion than either R2 or 3PO ever was. I found the two old droids to be rather annoying at best in this and was glad their screen time was kept to a minimum.

Jerry

I also like that Ray is a strong and self sufficient female without constantly shouting out that she is and waving an agenda flag.

Completely agree. I have a daughter I took with me to the movie. She'll be turning 10 in a little over a week. She loved Rey, just as she loved Princess Leia in the OT. Having a strong and capable female certainly appeals to her, and I can't see anything wrong with that…

Damon.

I found this article interesting as it answers a bunch of the questions and comments from what is found in the novelization of the movie.
link

I actually did like the scene with Rey and Ren in the cell…

'this is not going at all like I planned it…'

"Untrained girl beats super bad guy lord in saber fight, he's saved by lucky rift in ground."

Don't forget, Ren was shot by Chewie. And they repeated over and over how powerful Chewie's xbow blaster was.

So Ren was really hurt when he fought Fin and Rey.

Xin

Yep! Good point.

Speaking of Dark Side, am I the only one who thought that the evil boss looked like Smeagol's dad? Seriously. The resemblance is uncanny.

As well it should be, since they are both played by Andy Serkis.

I liked it. We've been twice and found it good fun entertainment. I thought Abrams did well to tie back a 30 year gap while setting the stage for new characters to carry the plots forward.

I thought it was an o.k. movie, just a very bad Star Wars movie. There were so many plot holes that you could drive an At-At through. The bad guys were just blah and empty.

Can JJC think of anything original and not blow things up?

Check this link for some pretty good plot holes:

link

Is it just me..but when Ren takes off his mask, it revealed Severus Snape!, or at least a fairly young version of him!

"There were so many plot holes that you could drive an At-At through. The bad guys were just blah and empty."

That's J.J. Abrams. You summed up everything he's ever done. Just turn the volume to "11," add megatons of explosions and nonstop fight scenes, and make sure no character's body is ever motionless for more than two seconds. Then nobody will care that none of it makes any sense.

I have to hand it to him: he understands the Zeitgeist perfectly. It's just not a world I want to live in.

I can't forgive him for excreting himself all over "Star Trek," which was perhaps the one great remaining Sci-Fi franchise that was still about character development, reason, science, and grappling with great moral questions. Then it got Abramsed, and now it looks just like everything else: a video game on "SuperFast" speed, as played by a 15-year old who has just dropped Ecstasy and washed it down with four cans of "Jolt."

Abrams is fine for what he brings to SW, but I agree the reboot Trek films were not to taste. I will also say that plot hole link makes a few assumptions that are not borne out in the movie.

Damon.

Yeah that plot hole list is full of holes itself. E.g. #34 suggests he wasn't paying attention to the movie and #36 suggests he's never paid attention to the setting. There aren't alien stormtroopers for the same reason there weren't black guys in the SS.

I was hoping for something better because I liked what JJ did with the new Star Trek.

I was disappointed though as it occurred to me I saw this movie already many years ago.

The special effects were good and, to me, there were a number of comical points that made me laugh.

Overall, a 6/10 maybe 7/10 tops.

I love the fact that they threw all the non-movie "canon" under the bus.
There is no canon but the movies.

Look.
If they kept the book "canon", book readers could feel smug that they knew what's going to happen. I was one of those snots with Game of Thrones. It's very liberating to not know what's going on. So kill the expanded universe or whatever they call it. It bought the authors food and rent. Good.

Winston Smith you might not know that the Clone Wars cartoon series and Star Wars Rebels is also Canon just wanted you know if you didn't.

Garth in the Park got it totally right IMHO!

"Is it just me..but when Ren takes off his mask, it revealed Severus Snape!, or at least a fairly young version of him!"

Oddly enough, when he took his mask off the first thing I thought of was 'Dr. Who'.

Captain Gideon, they're canon until the movie producers decide they aren't.

Besides, the only people who care about canon are geeks and nerds. JJ certainly doesn't. Look what he did to the other "Star…" franchise.
Obviously, his opinion is all that matters.
All other media have been thrown under the bus.