tsofian | 20 Dec 2015 7:11 p.m. PST |
With radios not being an option for Victorian Science Fiction settings and for aerolyth craft how will ground units signal to air units? Flags Smoke pots colored fabric panels Heliographs signal lamps How will an aerial landing assault be controlled? Will pathfinders parachute in or come in via high speed craft and establish landing zones? Will it be like a beach amphibious assault with guide craft and beach-masters? |
Twoball Cane | 20 Dec 2015 7:53 p.m. PST |
A very long fire firemans pole down the bottom of the aeronef. Glider force perhaps |
Winston Smith | 20 Dec 2015 8:17 p.m. PST |
You manipulate the aether of course. VSF is all about using technology that either does not exist, yet, or is just a tad impossible, like perpetual motion machine. So why cavil about radio? |
79thPA | 20 Dec 2015 8:20 p.m. PST |
If you have soldiers flying around in air ships making combat drops, why can't you have a radio or the functional equivalent of one? |
bsrlee | 20 Dec 2015 8:52 p.m. PST |
Flags could be either Semaphore system or simple pre-arranged patterns, all the others fit in well. They were all used in WW2 for airborne operations as even then radio communication was unreliable, for example Operation Market Garden. |
79thPA | 20 Dec 2015 9:08 p.m. PST |
You can have your pathfinders set up drop zone flags and pop colored smoke. |
Lion in the Stars | 20 Dec 2015 9:10 p.m. PST |
So why cavil about radio? Because his Hive, Queen and Country setting hasn't had radio invented yet. IIRC, the Russians and Chinese still use flags to control their amphibious assaults. All the craft assigned to LZ RED fly red flags, for example. Once the "beachmaster" arrives at the LZ, he's probably going to be using a mix of flags and heliograph signals. |
MacrossMartin | 20 Dec 2015 11:42 p.m. PST |
I think it's very interesting to speculate on a scenario in which one technology (in this case, flight) exists without the benefit of others which, historically, co-existed. Of course, aircraft in WW1 got by without much help from radio, so examining early war efforts to co-ordinate and control air assets might help. The image of an aerial assault resembling, and being run similar to, a beachhead is a fascinating one! |
Martin Rapier | 21 Dec 2015 12:11 a.m. PST |
You don't need radios to run an airborne assault, these things are pre planned, like an artillery barrage. You don't even need to mark the DZs if it is pre planned enough, although it helps. I suspect you are thinking of helicopter assaults as a model, whereas glider and parachute attacks are probably a better simile. All the other methods of air to ground comms work, but in a VSF setting, quaint things like semaphore and heliograph May be most appropriate. When my father was in the RAF he was issued a heliograph, I still have it. |
Rabbit 3 | 21 Dec 2015 4:22 a.m. PST |
Carrier pigeons? These actually were used by aircraft in WWI and to some extent in WWII to communicate with their home bases. |
Martin Rapier | 21 Dec 2015 7:21 a.m. PST |
Carrier Pigeons also have the advantage that you can field Dick Dastardly and Muttley in an attempt to shoot them down.
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TheBeast | 21 Dec 2015 11:45 a.m. PST |
When my father was in the RAF he was issued a heliograph, I think those were in the survival kit for downed airmen, right? I suppose you could wrap a note around a rock and pitch it; then they could reply with Liftwood paper… Whoops, not HQC either. ;->= Doug |
Dye4minis | 21 Dec 2015 3:46 p.m. PST |
Use of reflecting mirrors? (or is that what is meant by a "heliograph"?) |
DyeHard | 21 Dec 2015 3:53 p.m. PST |
While Heliographs and Semaphores are options, there are other forms of optical telegraphy that might be better. A system of colored panels or a large semaphore device like this:
Would allow for longer range communications.
If over friendly controlled ground the Airship could simply drop notes on a weight with a long ribbon tail to make it easy to recover. Or even a pair of wires to allow direct electrical telegraphy.
If over unfriendly ground or otherwise too remote, acknowledgements would have to be done by Flags or a return semaphore. Here is a write-up of a system of using ground based panels (or flags) link |
tsofian | 21 Dec 2015 5:06 p.m. PST |
Thanks-Now I need to figure out what sorts of figures I need to represent these! |
tsofian | 21 Dec 2015 5:07 p.m. PST |
And heliographs use mirrors and the sun or artificial light to send messages |
TheBeast | 22 Dec 2015 6:11 a.m. PST |
Technically, the 'helio' is sun. Signal lamps don't require the mirror, though they've been used, as the mirror can be quicker than a shutter. I'd prefer to call them all 'signal lamps.' Doug |
Martin Rapier | 22 Dec 2015 11:16 a.m. PST |
"Now I need to figure out what sorts of figures I need to represent these!" For my 54mm Funny Little Wars semaphore signallers I just converted some figures in dynamic 'arm waving poses' using pins and paper flags. A heliograph is even easier, just a tripod with some sort of shiny VSF apparatus on top with a couple of figures standing around it. |
Lion in the Stars | 22 Dec 2015 7:34 p.m. PST |
Peter Pig makes 15mm heliograph teams, two teams per pack:
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Lion in the Stars | 23 Dec 2015 10:13 a.m. PST |
@Dye4Minis: yes, a heliograph is a signalling mirror. Actually, it'd be hard to use a tripod heliograph to signal a flying machine, you really need a mirror in your hand in a pose like a shot-putter. The outflung hand lets you "target" the flying machine by seeing the flashes on the hand. YouTube link Signal lamps or flags would be better for wide-area communications, since it's not like the Hive reads Imperial code! |
tsofian | 23 Dec 2015 2:08 p.m. PST |
So I need to get some 15mm signal flag guys and some with flares and signal lamps. |
spontoon | 01 Jan 2016 4:51 p.m. PST |
What about very long telegraph cables? |
tsofian | 01 Jan 2016 6:11 p.m. PST |
That might also work, depending upon the scenario. Balloons did exactly that |
DyeHard | 03 Jan 2016 12:28 p.m. PST |
One could envision a system of balloons fixed to the ground by a line. Each supports several sets of telegraph lines. An airship would visit a balloon to communicate with the ground. It might even unspool a line to maintain contact for some distance from the balloon until the line failed. These would allow for rapid and confidential communications, but this could be cut-off with little or no warning. It would also make the balloon and the slowing airship an easier target, while making the connection to the line. |
tsofian | 03 Jan 2016 2:02 p.m. PST |
I am wondering why the balloons would be need. The airship could carry a lot of telegraph wire and just trail it down to locations where it can be connected to the ground network by "wiredogs" as we used to call them. Although this will only work behind friendly lines it might offer a fairly good connection |