"So, is 20mm considered 1/72 or 1/76 scale?" Topic

Sorry if this seems a silly question, but I am a bit puzzled. Forgive me, I've spent the last 40 odd years involved in rail modeling.

I did build armor in 1/35 scale way back before that, and also did a bit of mini wargaming, but it's dim memories, now. I'm getting back into modeling, and leaning towards the so called 'braille' scale, WWII US and UK things.

Model kits are basically listed by their scale, and many figure sets are, as well.

However, I have seen excellent figures in my researching, that are listed as 20mm. Are they closer to the 1/72 scale, or 1/76?

Thanks.

Jim Flynn

So, is 20mm considered 1/72 or 1/76 scale?

nowadays it is both, but originally it was 1/87th (HO)
I do not like the words 20mm, but have fallen in line with the rest!
you can get away with the 2 different scales as long as you do not have the same make of vehicle in the 2 scales.
almost all gamers mix and match dependant on what is available.

Yes.

Stating a scale in terms of millimeters allows for a lot of fudging. I think this is by intention. 1/72 is not 1/76 nor 1/87, and some of the early Roco models were actually 1/100, but they can all fit under the label '20mm'.

"So, is 20mm considered 1/72 or 1/76 scale?"

Yes.

Yes.
The wise guys beat me to it.

As above, both, as well as OO/HO and 1/87th.

Some '20mm' figures are larger than others, but some are actually marketed with a scale (SHQ are 1/76th, Roco figures are 1/87th, Valiant claim to be 1/72nd but are more like 1/65).

personally I use 1/72 scale model vehicles, which are usually in scale to each other. if a model is hard to find, companies like SHQ and Milicast have 1/76 vehicles that are slightly smaller than the others, but not enough for me to loose sleep over. I do keep them in separate units though, as it is noticeable (i.e. a 1/76 Sherman next too a 1/72 one looks off to me, but on its own in a game, I wouldn't notice)

I use 1/72 plastic figures if I like the sculpt (cause they are cheep!), or 20mm metals if I dont. not all 20mm figures look good with the plastics, and are a little smaller. but the best out there are AB figures (sold though Eureka miniatures for sure, and maybe others), and they look good with my plastics. like mentioned, valiant plastics are huge compared to the rest. check out the website plastic solider review for info. its great.

link

Every has their own ideas on this. When Minifigs introduced their 25mm 'S' Range figures in the early 70s they defined 25mm as 6 foot – ie, as 25mm is virtually (virtually) identical to 1", 25mm = 1/72nd scale.

Early Airfix figures were basically 20mm, they corresponded to 1/76th scale vehicles and aircraft.

So, ignoring scale creep – which started almost from the start of wargaming anyway – I've always said 25mm=1/72nd, 20mm=1/76th scale.

Maybe.

Fatman

Just to be different ;p

Damn was going to go for "Yes", then when it was taken "Maybe" and was beaten to the punch both times.

I guess that leaves the good old lawyer standby of:

"It Depends"

They are different scales but are close enough to mix and match for wargames. Most of the time.

20mm is not a scale so the answer is no to either option.

1/76th is 4mm to the foot.

1/72nd is 1/6th of an inch to the foot.

So the latter is old imperial while the former is metric.

20mm is 1/73.5 scale. ;)

1/76th is 0.157in to the foot.

1/72nd is 4.23mm to the foot.

'So the latter is old imperial while the former is metric.'

As far as I am aware, 4mm is metric, not Imperial.

If I take a Britannia Resin kit and put it beside a 1/72 scale model they are the same size. That being said Britannia are 1/72 advertised as 20mm.

Wow! I thought UK railway modellers had a mess, with all their different track gauges! LOL

I think I'll stick with working to 1/76, buying from those mfrs who state that is the scale they mfr. to. At least that way, I can incorporate some of the vehicles into railway dioramas, circa 1944.

Thanks, I think, for all the replies, makes it as clear as mud :)

Jim F

'So the latter is old imperial while the former is metric.'

As far as I am aware, 4mm is metric, not Imperial.

Indeed, it is, which is in fact what he actually said.

Many 20mm sculpts are chunky, also. Like buying historical reenactor versions of the same figures.

I like comparing the weapons and kit figures are carrying as
Opposed to the height of the figures Piers uses multiple 20mm scales on the same table and they look great.

And then there are Valiant figures !

@ MajorB

1/76th is 4mm to the foot

That is not metric, it is a bastard scale (technical term)

"Thanks, I think, for all the replies, makes it as clear as mud :)"

That's about what it is.
Back in the day when wargaming started taking off as a hobby, most popular was Napoleonic wargaming. Because all the toy soldiers wore some kind of extravagant headgear (Shakos, Czapskas, bearskins, stovepipes, Belgians, Kiwer, Forage caps, Schirmmütze, Colpack, bicorne etc), the top of the head couldn't be measured, so they measured from the height of eye. So even though by a direct measurement (and assuming a 6 foot soldier) a 25mm figure would be 1/72 scale, it's actually bigger than that. 20mm is closer but it isn't exact. Nothing is, since they assumed a 6' soldier and that is by no means universal.
Also, many scales have suffered from "hero-sizing" or inflation (15mm and 25mm worst) so now there are figures that are theoretically one size that are actually another couple mm larger. Some companies call their figures by a different size to differentiate (12mm, 18mm and 28mm come to mind). There are also "True scale" figures that are compatible with the figures from "way back when" (like Minifigs strip figures).

Clear as mud indeed. Now the next question: What color should I paint them?

@ MajorB
1/76th is 4mm to the foot
That is not metric, it is a bastard scale (technical term)

Please direct your comment to Paint it Pink, not me.

Back in the day when wargaming started taking off as a hobby, most popular was Napoleonic wargaming.

That is not true at all! Wargaming started"taking off" as a recreational hobby in the 1960s with the publication of Featherstone's "Wargames". In that book were three sets of rules for "ancient", "horse and musket" and "modern" periods. (BTW, by "modern" it meant WW2!) The "horse and musket period" was exemplarised by the American Civil War, NOT Napoleonics! In fact for those of us who could not afford metal figures, the only "horse and musket" era figures available were the Airfix ACW sets.

Airfix were modeling figures, the fact that they were useful for wargaming was incidental, that's why they were listed as HO/OO and not by a mm scale. I started playing wargames in the 70's, and Minifigs were the figures I saw most often, but everyone talked about "Scrubys" as older figures and IIRC they used some figures like Britains as well. IIRC Scrubys were 30mm and kind of spindly.

Airfix were modeling figures, the fact that they were useful for wargaming was incidental, that's why they were listed as HO/OO and not by a mm scale.

Not quite sure what you mean by "modelling figures". Everyone I knew bought them for wargaming. And the reason for the "HO/OO" scale (which is in itself a mixture of 2 different scales) is that Airfix were making them to fit in size wize with the most common model railway scale in the UK at that time which was "HO/OO". This scale was defined as OO scale (4mm to the foot) models running on HO scale (3.5mm to the foot) track. The reason for this strange mix of scales is that Britsh outline trains could not be made at HO scale then becausee the motor mechanisms would not fit inside the smaller models. The UK has a smaller laoading gauge than the rest of Europe or the US.

I started playing wargames in the late 60's, and Airfix were the figures I saw most often

I'm starting to think we're talking past each other here. The original poster was concerned about the relationship between the ratio scale, which was created for modeling purposes and the mm scale, which was created for wargaming purposes. Airfix figures were created using the modeling scale (as you say, for model trains), while most lead figures used by wargamers were created to the mm scale. I used both lead and Airfix figures when I was young, but the exact relationship between the two is not mathematical, you need to compare figures and pick what works together for you. I should also mention that wargaming is and was very much a localized hobby. I played with older gentlemen who could afford lead figures, and one dentist whose wife painted; I swear his army multiplied faster than cockroaches.

and the mm scale, which was created for wargaming purposes.

There is no such thing as a "mm scale". "20mm" is a size not a scale.