"Team Yankee: Yikes!!! That's what a hoard looks like!" Topic

I wouldn't want to be these crunchies…

link

The Beasts of War had quite the Team Yankee party this weekend starting on Friday. The players assembled models and tossed them on the board. There's a nice fellow (German?) from Battlefront teaching the rules and there are some really nice videos showing how the game is played. Lots of interviews of players who seem to be having a lot of fun with the game.

They're saying:

1. Everything can kill everything, so you have to be really careful with how you maneuver.

2. The game plays fast and very clean. The data cards shave tons of time off a game and really are helpful.

3. The Soviets and the US are rather well matched in a numbers vs quality game.

4. Choppers are scary, especially with the limited AAA resources both sides have in this round. Many people wonder how the Vulcan and ZSU will affect this.

5. The game rewards using proper tactics and punishes "hey diddle diddle" play.

But it looks even more like a horde. ;-)

Unpainted figures!
Unheard of!

I have to admit that tanks packed close together look cool and impressive even if it's "unrealistic." Just think in terms of ground scale and it's fine.

I wasn't thrilled with the interview with the head Battlefront guy. No plans on adding more US and Soviet Forces soon. Seems like their plan is just to give nations a mbt, APC and some arty.

Gasp

Remember the aim is to sell loads of different stuff.

Is this for 1985 AD or 985 AD?

"Front rank, loose!"

:-)

One doesn't just throw unpainted figures on the table…

But it looks even more like a horde. ;-)

I'm out sick today so I type whatever gibberish I feel like between periods of bleh…

I wasn't thrilled with the interview with the head Battlefront guy. No plans on adding more US and Soviet Forces soon. Seems like their plan is just to give nations a mbt, APC and some arty.

It sounds like they have a lot on their plate. Did you catch the bit about Flames of War Pacific? Two books, Banzi and Gung Ho plus the models to support them. He also said that the next Team Yankee wave will be around this time next year with more factions. So I guess they are going with more factions over just expanding the US and Soviets.

One doesn't just throw unpainted figures on the table…

Well it is a bootcamp. The players put their toys together on Friday, learned the rules and played Saturday, and Sunday was about expanding the game and just playing. No painting here!

With the targets that close together, do you roll for multiple kills from a flank shot with sabot?

You'd think. Arty wasn't used much in this round of bootcamp. I would imagine the T72 phalanx would loosen up once FASCAM and DPICM make their appearance.

In that third picture, I imagine the tank commanders are happily redefining "Gone to Ground" for those infantrymen.

And why we also call dismounts "crunchies".

For the record, the Russians got clobbered in this action. This was just when they overran the infantry line. Off camera US Cobras and Abrams are having a field day shooting up T72s.

Will there be a way to get just the cards?

Nah, Tgunner, they'll just make those artillery templates small, in relation to the size of the vehicles.

Well actually JP never said they arent going to release more. What he did say is that they are going to work on Germans and Brits before expanding the range.

Have you seen the templates? They're huge!!!

Now I'm not sure just how they are used but man, that's one honking big template. And in this example he's showing what a rocket strike from a HIND looks like.

youtu.be/0K_fuT_qZ_k?t=1020

Yikes!!!

I'm wincing at what SU-122 or a M109 bombardment must look like, let alone what a BM-21 or MLRS strike must look like.. shudder!

These templates probably are scaled down a lot for a tabletop game when compared to the real McCoy, but it's still a massive template. Once that bad boy (or two or three of them at once if Flames of War is any example) comes down and erases a company or two of hub-to-hub tanks people will start to appreciate tactical spacing in this game.

Will there be a way to get just the cards?

You already can. Just troll the net a little.

link

I know some folks who are already playing Team Yankee using the regular rules and the game cards.

Is this for 1985 AD or 985 AD?

"Front rank, loose!"

:-)

More like 85 AD. That first picture makes me think of warbands of Germans or Celts rushing my line of legionnaires.

So more like

"Pila….. LOOSE!!!!"

But it looks even more like a horde. ;-)

Actually after reviewing the picture and the current prices to assemble this force I think I'll go back to my original assessment and say that is a hoard!

There's at least 20 or so T72s in that game and even with the bonus tank that force will cost over $240. USD So to me it is a hoard! I'll get one next month and then save my $$ and get the other later in the winter/spring.

Hoard (v): To amass and hide or store away.

Horde (n): A large group of people.

(snickers)

You'll have to hoard your money to assemble that force!

I'm getting 6mm forces together for this. Played a couple games of US vs US while I paint my T-72s. Abrams are just hilariously powerful: Move 14" through difficult terrain, then shoot at full ROF with no range penalty. A Blitz move makes this 18" on a good day.

On the other hand, US infantry are just useless in tank assaults: the Dragon can't defensive fire or assault (because minimum range), and the LAW isn't good enough to beat BDD armor.

The 2+ FP tank cannons mean flanked = dead, so that 14" tactical move is a very big deal. US infantry seem to be primarily an area-denial tool (vs other US tanks, purely so), useful for covering flanks.

The A-10 is the perfect tool for killing one tank: important when my HQ made a run for the enemy objective. An Abrams can go 18" without Dashing, and thus really race to take an open objective. But mine got blown up by a Maverick. I imagine Warthogs are death incarnate to anything lighter, but so is basically everything in this game. It's really interesting that armor is either 2 or 12, with little in between.

There's at least 20 or so T72s in that game and even with the bonus tank that force will cost over $240. USD USD So to me it is a hoard! I'll get one next month and then save my $$ and get the other later in the winter/spring.

That's what drove us to launch our company and the way we design our games. We have two sons approaching college age and lots of demands on our time and money: boy scouts, robotics team, debate team, orchestra, etc…and we need to consider our own retirement too! :-)

At several hundred dollars per army these game systems tied to miniatures sales get really expensive. Painting time also skyrockets with bigger armies.

And then game play suffers as the table is crammed with hoardes of figures that look nothing like the numerous videos from Iraq, Afghanistan, Syria, and the Ukraine.

Other than boosting gross revenue for a miniatures company deploying 30 figures or 5 tank models per unit doesn't add much tactical flavor compared to fewer figures and models if, for example, those 30 figures or 5 models are your basic unit of maneuver.

The straw that broke the camel's back for me was when I realized that as figure/model density increased tactical options DRAMATICALLY decreased ruining the fun of small unit action gaming.

With giant units occupying large frontages relative to table size your choices pretty much boil down to sit or move forward. Gone is the challenge of a unit picking its away across the battlefield from cover to cover. No more intricate interlocking fields of fire and dangerous angles.

This problem isn't unique to 20th century gaming. Sci-fi fans saw the same thing happen as games such as 40K grew from the skirmish level Rogue Trader to the monster that it is today. And if you've played one of those Old School 18th century games with 48-man 28mm figures you know the pain of limited tactical options.

The common problem linking all of these giant unit games: besides deciding to buy certain units and deployment there's actually very little the player can choose once the game starts. The unit frontages and density are so big the game boils down to sit or advance then roll some dice. You realy don't need the players beyond that as their primary function shifts from battlefield tactician to consumer displaying sample figures for ithers to ooh and aah over. Which makes sense once you think about it from the manufacturer's perspective.

By tying tabletop performance more to figure purchase decision and deployment options severely limited by high unit denisty the manufactuer controls the success or failure of a sample force more so than if the player was left with numerous and intricate maneuver options after battle commenced. Thus all forces become equally attractive to the market and fluff can be used to market different "factions" to particular segments with an affinity for that faction.

Here's some math to illustrate the above with fewer words.

Starting premise: to be as generous as possible let's assume a rifle company of three platoons deployed "two up and one back" and the two forward platoons have their squads also "two up and one back" with their weapons squad MG teams in front too. And let's assume a modest 1" between stands to mitigate the effects of arty without spreading out too thin.

That means each forward platoon has 4x rifle teams and 2x MG teams out front with 2x rifle teams and the command team behind. Total platoon frontage is 10" for the stands themselves and 5" for the 1" gaps between stands for a total frontage of 15". Two such rifle platoons have a total frontage of 31" assuming a 1" gap where they tie in together.

So, for just two rifle platoons on line and with a squad from each of those in reserve, your force occupies nearly half of a 72" wide tabletop!

That leaves just 20" per flank assuming that you can deploy right up to the edge of the table.

This is why Phil Yates initially ran FoW demos as reinforced platoon vs platoon with about 9 to 12 teams per side. It looked really good, was tactically interesting, and looked really affordable (despite even first edition armies being large based on the included army lists…the demos were very different from the book).

5. The game rewards using proper tactics and punishes "hey diddle diddle" play.

I like that.

Have you seen the templates? They're huge!!!

Now I'm not sure just how they are used but man, that's one honking big template. And in this example he's showing what a rocket strike from a HIND looks like.

youtu.be/0K_fuT_qZ_k?t=1020

Yikes!!!

I'm wincing at what SU-122 or a M109 bombardment must look like, let alone what a BM-21 or MLRS strike must look like.. shudder!

Yeah, that's the "LP of Doom" 12" square template. A sufficient number of arty tubes firing as a battery gets you that template, I think it takes at least 9 guns to get the 12x12, 6+ guns for a "double-wide" 6x12 template. WW2 Katyushas can get the 12x12, too, so I expect that the BM21 and MLRS will natively have the 12x12. IIRC, cluster munitions from the Vietnam rules doubled the number of guns shooting for purposes of template size.

These templates probably are scaled down a lot for a tabletop game when compared to the real McCoy, but it's still a massive template. Once that bad boy (or two or three of them at once if Flames of War is any example) comes down and erases a company or two of hub-to-hub tanks people will start to appreciate tactical spacing in this game.

12" is roughly 300m, though Flames doesn't really have a set groundscale. So yeah, the templates are probably undersized for modern 155mm ammo.

The game rewards using proper tactics and punishes "hey diddle diddle" play

Unless you are using standard armoured tactics. Looking at a British Armoured Sqn in the advance. Sqn goes either one or 2 (troops) up, keeping one leg on the ground at all times (the troops will carry out the same tactic). They will then advance to contact.

When contact is made the troop at the rear will make a flanking movement using dead ground. Troop in contact will/can bring down a fire mission whilst other troops are flanking. The whole point of keeping one leg on the ground is to provide overwatch. There will be no charge of lines of tanks like Napoleonic cavalry.

Tally Ho!

I'm more thinking of ye olde "there's the enemy boys, have at 'em!" school of gaming. Sort of what you saw in the pictures I posted. What you don't see is the platoon or so of Abrams tanks who got to enjoy quite a few flank shots.

As the guy above pointed out 2+ FP + flank shot = dead tank.