Tango01 | 27 Nov 2015 10:03 p.m. PST |
"Germany plans to deploy Tornado reconnaissance jets to help the French air campaign against so-called Islamic State (IS) in Syria. A naval frigate, satellite images and aerial refuelling will also be provided, the defence minister said. France has asked Germany to commit more resources after the deadly Paris attacks – carried out by IS militants. "We know that this inhumane rage can hit us or other societies at any time too," said Ursula von der Leyen…" Full article here link Well… something is something… Amicalement Armand |
Legion 4 | 28 Nov 2015 8:17 a.m. PST |
Yes, I posted this earlier on a thread. The French are getting more "useful" members of the US "lead" 65 member Coalition to contribute more to the fight. The Germans already provide equipment, support and training to the Kurds. Besides many Western/NATO nations are actually providing aircraft, intel, equipment, SF troops to train and some to actually go forward to call-in CAS, etc. … What are the many others in that 65 member mix are doing ? I question the intent and support, etc., from many of the local and regional Islamic nations' contribution to this War on Daesh ? To get control of their rogue Islamic brothers … It really is their problem … But incidents, "politics", etc., etc., have made it a worldwide problem. |
Bangorstu | 28 Nov 2015 9:05 a.m. PST |
In the past a lot of those coalition members will be financing those dropping the bombs or providing logistical support, like bases. |
EMPERORS LIBRARY | 28 Nov 2015 9:28 a.m. PST |
Most of the Arab coalition members have withdrawn their aircraft from fighting ISIS in order to bomb the houthis in Yemen. |
Legion 4 | 28 Nov 2015 10:12 a.m. PST |
That is all good and I know and understand all that. But they have to realize the only way to really, really defeat Daesh is with moslem boots/sandals/Reboks/Nikes on the ground. With US, NATO, Western CAS, intel, etc., etc. … Everybody says and knows you can't defeat Daesh with just bombing runs, etc., … You have to have moslems killing Daesh toe-to-toe, face to face, mano-a-mano … Not Western "Crusaders", Infidels, Non-Believers, or anything else they come up with to call Christians, Jews, Yazidis, etc. … Sounds like to me. With all the Arabs and even the Turks[who are not considered Arabs, but fellow moslems], with all their Western tech and training, etc., could/would have to get their collective acts together. Form an regional force to take care of their rogue, corrupted Islamic brothers. After all, it's their back yard and more moslems are dying at Daesh's hands than any one else. Saying you can park your planes here, sounds like the easy way out. Or saying that ALL are busy fighting in Yemen. How big is the combined militaries of these countries ? And how big is the Houthis, AQ, etc., threat ? I'd think the Saudis and their other petro-buddies forces, etc., in the area already together out number their enemies, yes ? And yes, we know all about the ethic, religious, tribal, differences. Cleric, sheriff, warlord, etc., affiliations, etc., etc., … And we know that is one of the BIG reasons Deash is so effective and growing. Again … Sounds like more excuses to me, sorry … |
paulgenna | 28 Nov 2015 10:41 a.m. PST |
I think some countries are just saying they want to destroy ISIS but they know they must act to make it look like they want ISIS gone. Everyone knows bombing alone will not defeat an enemy. We bombed the Iraqi army in the first Gulf War but to actually win, we had to send the ground troops in. |
Legion 4 | 28 Nov 2015 10:45 a.m. PST |
Just found this on a post from Tango. Very interesting and informative. the countries involved in the fight and what they do. Kuwait: This tiny, oil-rich country contributed 15 fighter jets to Saudi's coalition. Bahrain: 15 Bahraini fighter jets are involved. In September, reports also emerged that five Bahraini soldiers had been killed in a missile attack by Houthi militants. Pakistan: By April, the country had agreed to back an arms embargo for the Houthis and talks were underway to send war ships to Yemen. Today, it contributes both warships and aerial support to Saudi. Qatar: Along with 10 fighter jets, 1,000 Qatari troops had been deployed in Yemen by September, one of whom became Qatar's first casualty earlier this month. UAE: In September, the UAE stepped up involvement in airstrikes using the 30 warplanes they've sent to Yemen. They've also suffered a number of ground troop casualties. Jordan: Though the involvement of the Hashemite Kingdom has been more low profile, Jordan has contributed six fighter jets to the Saudi coalition. Sudan: In addition to three jets, Sudan sent 300 troops to the Yemeni port city of Aden in October, Reuters reported, to "help maintain security." This month, Al Monitor reported Sudan received $2.2 USD billion from Saudi and Qatar for joining the fight. Egypt: Four Egyptian warships were deployed at the beginning of the coalition, along with up to 800 ground troops, according to a Reuters report in September. Morocco: The North African country has six fighter jets in Yemen, one of which the Houthis claimed to have downed early on in the campaign, on March 11. Iran: The Iranian government has been intermittently accused of supporting the Houthis with weapons and launching a robust media campaign against the Saudi coalition. Yet, at least in the public eye, Iran has denied direct involvement in the fight. US: President Barack Obama has authorized logistical intelligence support for Saudi's campaign. Meanwhile, the cluster munitions Saudi keeps being accused of dropping on civilian areas are US-made, not to mention illegal to use in the majority of the world. Saudi Arabia: This campaign has come at a high cost in terms of public opinion and the sky-high death toll—some 6000 Yemeni civilians have died over 10 months and most of the country's infrastructure is in shambles, partially because of Saudi-led airstrikes.
Quite a "Rogue's Gallery " … |
Mako11 | 28 Nov 2015 11:21 a.m. PST |
Unless they're doing actual fighting, they shouldn't be counted as "coalition members". Funny about the Iran thing, since so many of their people are getting killed. Perhaps they are just very accident prone, or choose to fight AQ instead. |
Bangorstu | 28 Nov 2015 12:13 p.m. PST |
You try operating in that area without any bases, logistical support etc and see how vital those non-fighting Coalition members are. Because I doubt very much it's American intelligence assets in Raqqa reporting on the situation there…. The US 6th fleet relies rather on Bahrain for an HQ doesn't it? |
Mako11 | 28 Nov 2015 12:36 p.m. PST |
You might be surprised, Bangor. Apparently, our intelligence agents are surprisingly good. |
Bangorstu | 28 Nov 2015 1:30 p.m. PST |
That I don't question. I doubt you've got many capable of surviving Raqqa though… Knowledge of Arabic probably not enough, you need the right accent… After 9/11 the country that provided the most assistance was, oddly enough, Syria. They'd been watching AQ for years. |
Legion 4 | 28 Nov 2015 2:17 p.m. PST |
Whatever stu … That I don't question. I doubt you've got many capable of surviving Raqqa though… Knowledge of Arabic probably not enough, you need the right accent… The intel agencies use locals and/or turn them. So it's not likely they will be discovered. And besides that … we have some very good agents, tech, etc. … After 9/11 the country that provided the most assistance was, oddly enough, Syria. They'd been watching AQ for years. I don't know that for a fact. Regardless, they were not considered a reliable source. Since we remember, among other things, they supported the precursor to Hezbollah kill the US Marines and French Paras in Lebanon in '83. There was then and certainly is now … a lack of trust to say the least … |
Bangorstu | 29 Nov 2015 2:59 a.m. PST |
As I said, I'm not questioning the competence of the US intelligence agencies, more that they're more likely to work through allies. Not only is it simpler, they'll already have assets in place and their analysts are much more likely to be able to accurately sift the intelligence properly. As for post 9/11, the Syrians may well have not been trusted, but most of what they (and the Jordanians) came up with proved to be accurate. For a start Syrian support for Hezbollah is irrelevant when dealing with AQ given the two organisations hate each other – one being Shi'a and the other Sunni… Plenty of bad things happened in Lebanon. Doubtless the Syrians would point to Sabra and Chatila, carried out by proxies of American allies… My enemies enemy is my friend. Syria had every reason to help get rid of AQ, as subsequent events have rather graphically proved. |
Legion 4 | 29 Nov 2015 8:48 a.m. PST |
Well as usual … we will have to see how this all plays out. s for post 9/11, the Syrians may well have not been trusted, but most of what they (and the Jordanians) came up with proved to be accurate. 20/20 hindsight … For a start Syrian support for Hezbollah is irrelevant when dealing with AQ given the two organisations hate each other – one being Shi'a and the other Sunni… We all know that … but on any given day the US/West has been targets for either religious faction. In many cases, they both could agree on two things. 1) Hatred for the Israelis 2) Hatred for the Infidel [that is us !] Plenty of bad things happened in Lebanon. Doubtless the Syrians would point to Sabra and Chatila, carried out by proxies of American allies… The same could be said in reverse. Americans/Westerners killed by Syrian [and Iranian] proxies. My enemies enemy is my friend. Syria had every reason to help get rid of AQ, as subsequent events have rather graphically proved. I think you missed the update on this, when it comes to the denizens on this region. "The enemy of my enemy is still my enemy." I'm sorry, I'd have to look very hard to find as a "group", any that are as untrustworthy as this lot … |
Bangorstu | 29 Nov 2015 10:48 a.m. PST |
Indeed 20/20 hindsight, I can see why they weren't trusted. Just pointing out they were both helpful and competent. BYTW, the Shi'a aren't targeting the 'West'. Iran has a specific issue with the USA – not the same thing. Hezbollah aren't conducting bombing camapigns across Europe. |
Legion 4 | 29 Nov 2015 11:46 a.m. PST |
The Hezbollah is the result of the Shia terrorists supported by both Syria and Iran. That blew up the USMC and French Para Barracks in Lebanon in '83 … That makes all 3 of those factions "non-friends". Iran still chants Death to Israel and to America. Shia' militia under clerics' leadership killed US and Coalition troops in GWII. Hezbollah is only not targeting Europe because they were too busy attacking Israel and now with Daesh … All Not friends of the West … Any US/NATO troops working with the Shia in Iraq, should be careful. The only locals I'd feel safe with is the Kurds … and they are Sunni … And the few remaining Yazidis … |
Mako11 | 29 Nov 2015 1:37 p.m. PST |
Yep, that little Lebanon incident does appear to be targeting to me, as does their nuke warhead and ballistic missile programs. |
Bangorstu | 29 Nov 2015 3:26 p.m. PST |
Legion… the USMC was attacked because they were Israeli allies poking their noses where it wasn't wanted. The only surprise is anyone was surprised. Hezbollah aren't attacking the West because they have no interest in doibg. They're only concerned with Israel. Can't think of any Shi'a inspired violence outside the ME. |
greatpatton | 29 Nov 2015 4:02 p.m. PST |
Legion 4: And what about the 290 Iranian civilian killed in 88 when their Airbus was shot down by the United States Navy (For which the US never formally apologized)? What about the coup d'etat supported by the US in 1953 to overthrow a democratic elected government and to keep it in place. etc. For 60 years the USA have been messing up with Iran internal policy, if Iran did a 1/10 of what the US did, I'm pretty sure that everyday people would be yelling death to Iran in Washington… Just try to compare current Iran and Saudi Arabia (a dear US ally) effort to export terrorism. None of the 9/11 terrorist were Shia or Iranian. |
zippyfusenet | 29 Nov 2015 5:22 p.m. PST |
Hezbollah aren't attacking the West because they have no interest in doibg. They're only concerned with Israel. Oh, Stu. I keep reminding you every couple of weeks. Do you think we've forgotten, or will ever forget? Hezbollah were murderers from the beginning, anywhere in the world they can reach, and have not changed one bit: The 1992 and 1994 Buenos Aires bombings: link Rafik Hariri assassinated 2005: link Pierre Gemayal assassinated 2006: link Bulgarian bus bombed 2012: link Mohammed Chatah assassinated 2013: link Alberto Nissman assassinated 2015. oh, who could have done such a thing?: link |
Lion in the Stars | 29 Nov 2015 6:19 p.m. PST |
So, what's the German soldier's preferred drink? Need to know what to buy. |
Mako11 | 29 Nov 2015 6:47 p.m. PST |
"Can't think of any Shi'a inspired violence outside the ME". The Iranians and their cronies have attempted several assassinations in the USA, IIRC, in addition to the ones Zippy mentions. They've killed some in Argentina too, IIRC. They've also held hundreds of US citizens hostage in the past, and are continuing to do so even today. Granted, not sure why any sane person would want to go to Iran, but some have relatives there, so perhaps that is the lure. |
Tango01 | 29 Nov 2015 9:22 p.m. PST |
German soldiers like Schnnaps! (smile) Amicalement Armand |
Cyrus the Great | 29 Nov 2015 10:16 p.m. PST |
Plenty of bad things happened in Lebanon. Doubtless the Syrians would point to Sabra and Chatila, carried out by proxies of American allies… Perception is selective, I guess, especially regarding Shatila. Look at another raid there.
By contrast, few voices were raised in May 1985, when Muslim militiamen attacked the Shatila and Burj-el Barajneh Palestinian refugee camps. According to UN officials, 635 were killed and 2,500 wounded. During a two-year battle between the Syrian-backed Shiite Amal militia and the PLO, more than 2,000, including many civilians, were reportedly killed. No outcry was directed at the PLO or the Syrians and their allies over the slaughter. |
greatpatton | 30 Nov 2015 12:14 a.m. PST |
zippy and Mako11, you tend to forget that this list contains only either Israeli target (mainly in retaliation for Israeli operation against Iran and Hezbollah like the Iranian scientist assassination by Israel, etc.) and Lebanese targets where Hezbollah is located. This is not the same process as exporting Sunni terrorism to every single part of the world and where building a list will be impossible. |
Bangorstu | 30 Nov 2015 12:46 a.m. PST |
Zippy – sorry, should have been more clear. Those attacks are all against Israelis. Hezbollah doesn't attack Westerners…. though they are all, I accept, terrorist acts. Though why more so than a drone strike? I stand by my statement that there is no Shi'a terrorism aimed at the West. You've not proved otherwise. |
Mako11 | 30 Nov 2015 12:46 a.m. PST |
Yea, right, the Israelis are the problem. [heavy, way over the top, dripping sarcasm was intended in the above response] Not the Muslim terrorists, and their backers in the region, or all the nations who've been trying to destroy Israel and the people living there, since the nation was created, and/or for the last 2,000 years, or so. |
zippyfusenet | 30 Nov 2015 7:05 a.m. PST |
Those attacks are all against Israelis. That is a gross misstatement of fact. Rafik Hariri, Pierre Gemayal, Mohammed Chatah were all Lebanese, not Israeli. The 1994 Buenos Aires attack targeted Argentines. Alberto Nussman was an Argentine. Not Israelis. And none of them was your girlfriend, either. The poor Bulgar who drove that bombed tourist bus wasn't even a Jew. Plain. Facts. Stu. Hezbollah murders anyone who gets in their way. |
15mm and 28mm Fanatik | 30 Nov 2015 8:38 a.m. PST |
I think with aerial bombings the goal has less to do with defeating Daesh than to satisfy the populace's thirst for revenge. The Paris attacks cannot go unanswered. It'll blow over eventually and life goes on as usual. There's simply no will to do what it takes right now. |
paulgenna | 30 Nov 2015 9:59 a.m. PST |
Hezbollah is a terrorist organization and they will kill anyone they suspect is helping/supporting Israel. |
Legion 4 | 30 Nov 2015 10:04 a.m. PST |
Legion… the USMC was attacked because they were Israeli allies poking their noses where it wasn't wanted. The only surprise is anyone was surprised.Hezbollah aren't attacking the West because they have no interest in doibg. They're only concerned with Israel. Can't think of any Shi'a inspired violence outside the
Legion 4: And what about the 290 Iranian civilian killed in 88 when their Airbus was shot down by the United States Navy (For which the US never formally apologized)? What about the coup d'etat supported by the US in 1953 to overthrow a democratic elected government and to keep it in place. etc.For 60 years the USA have been messing up with Iran internal policy, if Iran did a 1/10 of what the US did, I'm pretty sure that everyday people would be yelling death to Iran in Washington… Just try to compare current Iran and Saudi Arabia (a dear US ally) effort to export terrorism. None of the 9/11 terrorist were Shia or Iranian.
Both of your posts have been answered by others here and I agree with what they said. And yes, we all know 9/11 was not carried out by Shia'/Persians. But as pointed out they are not innocent of never attacking the West. And yes, we know and it is made clear more and more the Saudis are "bad guys" too. And we have had long discussions about the shoot down of the Iranian airliner before. They were in the wrong place at the wrong time and not clearly ID'd. The USN reacted as in a combat situation sometimes you have to make quick decisions. Which don't always prove correct. Again, there was no motive or intent to shoot that aircraft down if it was known to be an airliner. Regardless of what some will say. And regardless, most Americans don't dance in the street and say Death to anyone. Unless it is for the local sports teams' rivalry. Most of the West is a little more evolved and in reality concerned about other things. Of course many danced in the street when UBL was terminated with extreme prejudice. That IMO was completely warranted. But in America, we don't have school children chant Death to anyone daily as we see in Iran. Again, we seem a bit more "evolved" than to do what many in the West, would consider "silly". It's a cultural thing as much as anything else, IMO … But maybe some may see this as a "Cowboy" mentality. But if you attack us for any reason. What you may see as completely justified. We "Cowboys" will strike back. It is in our nature … it's cultural. satisfy the populace's thirst for revenge Payback is a Mutha ! |
cwlinsj | 30 Nov 2015 10:52 a.m. PST |
Let me state again that the UK and the EU both have identified Hezbollah as a terrorist organization. Go ahead and throw out your rationalizations, but your own countries have defined them as terrorists and therefore a legitimate target for war actions. |
Bangorstu | 30 Nov 2015 12:40 p.m. PST |
We called the PKK a terrorist organisation as well. Hasn't stopped the USA flying CAS missions for them… |
greatpatton | 30 Nov 2015 12:54 p.m. PST |
"But maybe some may see this as a "Cowboy" mentality. But if you attack us for any reason. What you may see as completely justified. We "Cowboys" will strike back. It is in our nature … it's cultural. " Legion4: The US attacked first ( by messing with Iran internal affair ) and supporting a dictator and giving him shelter ( which triggered the US Embassy affair ) . As long as you will not be able to see the perspective from the opposite side, it will be difficult to emphasis that the US are not always the good guy . The USA are the first reason why there is today an Islamic State in Iran. A state that the US tried to erase in the Irak-Iran was by spending billion of dollar in aid ( link ) Q: Why will then never be a coup d'état in Washington, D.C.? A: Because there's no American embassy there.
I do think that the Iranian mollah are a big bunch of douche. That their stance about Israel is grossly stupid. However I think that everyone should recognized that this is not a black and white story. By the way, yes Shia were maybe killing US troops in GWII, but who invaded their country after telling the world blatant lies? |
Mako11 | 30 Nov 2015 1:54 p.m. PST |
Which lies are you referring to, that most, if not all the world was on board in believing? The one about WMDs in Iraq that our troops who served there and that were exposed to them are sick from, and/or that may have already prematurely died from exposure to them? |
Legion 4 | 30 Nov 2015 2:20 p.m. PST |
We called the PKK a terrorist organisation as well.Hasn't stopped the USA flying CAS missions for them…
But that has to be obvious to most that that is more geo-political, ie. the Turks in NATO. Legion4: The US attacked first ( by messing with Iran internal affair ) and supporting a dictator and giving him shelter ( which triggered the US Embassy affair ) . As long as you will not be able to see the perspective from the opposite side, it will be difficult to emphasis that the US are not always the good guy . The USA are the first reason why there is today an Islamic State in Iran. A state that the US tried to erase in the Irak-Iran was by spending billion of dollar in aid ( link ) Q: Why will then never be a coup d'état in Washington, D.C.? A: Because there's no American embassy there.
I do think that the Iranian mollah are a big bunch of douche. That their stance about Israel is grossly stupid. However I think that everyone should recognized that this is not a black and white story. By the way, yes Shia were maybe killing US troops in GWII, but who invaded their country after telling the world blatant lies?
Yes, but much of all you say is in the eye of the beholder … And few things in the world are black and white. One man's freedom fighter is another's terrorist. And I didn't need the link. I'm well aware of the history, etc. … Plus regardless who ever believes that they are right or wrong is usually all based on someone's point of view. And yes, to understand your enemy's point of view, know your enemy is right out of Sun Tzu. However, you may or may not see it the same way your enemy does. And even if you do when the shooting starts it matters little at that point. And I don't care why they are shooting at us. Or what they call themselves, Shia, Sunni, Daesh, etc., etc. … at that point they are just "targets to be serviced". Did the US do the Iranians wrong at some point … probably … most likely ? But if they retaliate, we won't say that is OK, we deserved it. That is not in our culture … or most likely not in most other's. I'm pretty sure … And we're not Swiss !!!! |
Khusrau | 01 Dec 2015 1:00 a.m. PST |
ahh.. the culture of US exceptionalism.. we get to invade,bomb, kill civilians, support tyrants, but if anyone tries to fight back – look horrified, cry victim and escalate. As for 'no-one cries death to Iran' well, there have been plenty of posts on TMP advocating turning the entire Middle East into irradiated glass. |
Bangorstu | 01 Dec 2015 2:51 a.m. PST |
Legion – and you don't thin kthe decision about Hezbollah wa spolitical as well? Hezbollah's Israeli enemies also kill civilians in large numbers… oddly they don't get called terrorists. My essential point is that whatever category you place Hezbollah should also contain Israel since both are as bad as one another. In the example of Israel, that's no always been the case, but since Rabin was murdered for the crime of regarding Palestinians are equals their behaviour has plumetted. |
Legion 4 | 01 Dec 2015 8:37 a.m. PST |
First rule of war is to understand your enemy. Of course that is why I mentioned Sun Tzu in that post. ahh.. the culture of US exceptionalism.. we get to invade,bomb, kill civilians, support tyrants, but if anyone tries to fight back – look horrified, cry victim and escalate. Yes, some call it the circle or cycle of violence. But as I said … Payback is a Mutha … from both sides. I think Shakespeare said it much, much better … If you prick us do we not bleed? If you tickle us do we not laugh? If you poison us do we not die? And if you wrong us shall we not revenge?William Shakespeare
As for 'no-one cries death to Iran' well, there have been plenty of posts on TMP advocating turning the entire Middle East into irradiated glass. For better or worse, that is just bravado, rhetoric etc., … And those who say that don't have their fingers on the buttons. "The green button is for coffee, the red one destroys the world. " Legion – and you don't think the decision about Hezbollah was political as well? Of course it's all part of geo-politics/realpolitik … that's the way it works. Hezbollah's Israeli enemies also kill civilians in large numbers… oddly they don't get called terrorists.My essential point is that whatever category you place Hezbollah should also contain Israel since both are as bad as one another.
Israel is a nation. And a US ally, the best in the Mid East. Hezbollah is a terrorist organization. Supported by 2 US enemies that help kill US soldiers and citizens … Iran and Syria. Again, one man's terrorist is another's freedom fighter. And your and others outlooks are colored by bias, prejudice, etc. … That includes me … I'm pro-Israel and anti-Arab, radicalized Islamic jihadi terrorists. One US politico was quoted saying, "Everybody is entitled to their own opinions, But not their own facts." … But like many politicos, he said something … but when you look deeper … it really means nothing. Facts and truth are in the eye of the beholder(s). And many of us here see thing very differently … obviously … Seems like I've said some of this all before. It just shows, many are entrenched in their beliefs and probably are not going to change. Because of some comments from some unknown, unseen typist on the other side of the net. |
Lion in the Stars | 01 Dec 2015 9:00 a.m. PST |
As for 'no-one cries death to Iran' well, there have been plenty of posts on TMP advocating turning the entire Middle East into irradiated glass. Yeah, from people like my Dad, who is a Silent Meeting Quaker. You know the situation is completely out of hand when you get the "hand your enemy the gun to shoot you with" pacifists calling for the outright nuking of the entire Middle East. I *think* he's not including Israel in that wish, but I'm not willing to ask, either. Let me repeat that: I know Silent Meeting Quakers calling for Islam delenda est. Not DAESH delenda est, Islam delenda est. The entire religion, not just the most frothing lunatics. |
Legion 4 | 01 Dec 2015 9:07 a.m. PST |
With all that is going on … it's hard to tell the "frothing lunatics" from many of the rest. To paraphrase an old saying, "You can't swing a dead molsem terrorist in the area, without hitting a radicalized Islamic jihadi" … |
zippyfusenet | 01 Dec 2015 10:07 a.m. PST |
My essential point is that whatever category you place Hezbollah should also contain Israel since both are as bad as one another. Sigh. Stu, Hezbollah is, currently this minute, shooting at and bombing me and mine, every chance they get. Israel, not so much. Israel is my friend. Hezbollah is the other side, my enemy. When the Hezbos show any disposition to settle the old quarrel, I'll be ready. They have recently made it clear, that won't happen any time soon. Until then: Screw Hezbollah. And Iran. And the horse they rode in on. And all their friends. |
Bangorstu | 01 Dec 2015 10:36 a.m. PST |
Legion – Israel kills more civilians than Hezbollah. That Israel is supported by the USA doens't entitle it automatically to a 'white hat'. You've yet to show me one thing that Hezbollah does that Israel doesn't…. My outlook is not coloured by bias. It's formed by thinking that an American ally murdering a civilian is exactly the same crime as an US enemy doing the same. |
Bangorstu | 01 Dec 2015 10:37 a.m. PST |
Hezbollah is, currently this minute, shooting at and bombing me and mine, every chance they get. Examples? I mean, you live in America. I've not hear dof any Hezbollah attacks recently in America. Indeed they're spending a lot of blood and treasure fighting the people responsible for Paris… |
Legion 4 | 01 Dec 2015 4:37 p.m. PST |
Let me say this again stu … Seems like I've said some of this all before. It just shows, many are entrenched in their beliefs and probably are not going to change. Because of some comments from some unknown, unseen typist on the other side of the net. I just remember the Marine Barracks bombed and hostages held by Hezbollah, etc., etc. … And we all familiar with your distain and vitriol for everything Israeli, stu. To paraphrase zippy and I agree Screw Hezbollah. And Iran. And the "camel" they rode in on. And all their friends. KInd'a like the sound of that … |
Bangorstu | 02 Dec 2015 2:33 a.m. PST |
Which of course means you have exactly the same mentality as the Iranians, just in reverse. Can't say how I find it either accurate or indeed helpful. It strongly reeks of US/Isralei exceptionalism where if 'we' do something, by definition it can't be a crime. Hezbollah does all kind sof grim things. But I can't see how they differ from the Israels given they too engage in politcal assassinations, direct attacks on civilian areas etc. |
Gwydion | 02 Dec 2015 8:44 a.m. PST |
Stu Ever noticed that Hezbollah is committed to eradicate the entire state of Israel and all her population – while Israel isn't trying to do the reverse to anyone? Relativism is.. well – relative. |
Legion 4 | 02 Dec 2015 9:08 a.m. PST |
Stop trying to speak sense Gwydion … The Israelis and US are to blame … for everything … Just ask stu … he'll tell you ! strongly reeks of US/Isralei exceptionalism Didn't forget about you Khusrau … ahh.. the culture of US exceptionalism. Yes, in many cases we and the Israelis are "exceptional" compared to most other "nations", failed and failing states for 1000s of miles around in any direction. And the locals find it easier to blame the US/West/Israelis for their corrupt, weak, etc., leadership and military(?) forces. Those are the real reasons for the growth of Deash and other intolerable situations that are clearly their faults … no one else's … |
Bangorstu | 02 Dec 2015 11:49 a.m. PST |
Gwydion – *cough* Palestinians. |
Gwydion | 02 Dec 2015 1:55 p.m. PST |
Cough – at least 1.5 million Arab (mainly Palestinian) citizens of Israel, working in all levels of government and state, not being murdered because they are Arabs. You said the Israelis did exactly the same as Hezbollah- have you checked Hezbollah's constitution lately? Tell me what is its primary aim? I'll give you a clue – rearrange these words- 'Israel Jews and of eradication the total' Now explain how those two conditions add up to moral equivalence. |