Achtung Minen | 27 Nov 2015 4:13 p.m. PST |
I've now completed some personal research into 20mm and I've decided that there are definitely enough options to do Early WW2 well. The reconnaissance also got me thinking… What is the best scale to capture both the large area of skirmishes as well as not lose focus on individual troops and their weaponry? A little background… When I first started the historical hobby around 15 or 16 years ago, I jumped right in with 25mm Battle Honours WWII. These were terrific minis and seemed just the perfect size. Of course, the venerable 20mm was fairly unknown in the Boston area (which still is the case, I'm afraid), so I didn't have much to compare them to. Eventually I got swept along with scale creep into 28mm and left old BH behind. Recently, I am looking at my 28mm forces and decided it really is a terrible scale for tabletop play. The models themselves are gorgeous (mostly the original, metal Bolt Action figures, before they were bought up by Warlord)… They are easy to paint and look good in a display case… But on a table, they make all the distances seem implausibly short. It really strains my suspension of disbelief to see 28mm models 12" away from each other trading shots. I finally came to the conclusion that I don't want my models to be having a spitting match… I want them to be having a battle, with at least a gesture to realistic ground scale. A little older and a little wiser, it seems like 20mm is the perfect scale for platoon vs platoon skirmishes… The spacing of the forces seems like it would be ideal, but the models are not so small that you can't figure out where your Bren gunner is at a glance. At the same time, I've still never seen a 20mm model on the table and it's hard to tell from photos if the scale fits my criteria. I had the thought that I might give old 25mm a try again, even though the scale has been terribly neglected in recent years. I know what a true 25mm model looks like on the table and it seems to work OK. Or is 20mm everything 25mm is and more? |
ubercommando | 27 Nov 2015 4:26 p.m. PST |
Put it this way; everything you need for a WW2 game is in 20mm. 25mm and you may find it hard to find stuff. |
EHeise | 27 Nov 2015 4:29 p.m. PST |
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sillypoint | 27 Nov 2015 4:36 p.m. PST |
I've got 10mm, 15mm, 20mm and 25mm….sad really. |
John de Terre Neuve | 27 Nov 2015 5:29 p.m. PST |
Funny, I game in the Boston area and I know at least 4 other local gamers who have 20mm forces including myself. The BA crowd play 28mm while the CoC crowd do it in 20 mm. If you scroll back back on my blog you will come across lots of 20mm action. link John |
45thdiv | 27 Nov 2015 5:42 p.m. PST |
I use 3 sizes to game WW2. 20 mm, 60mm or 1/6th scale. Most of the larger battles are done in 20mm. You can find everything in that scale. I also play Chain of Command with the 20 and 60mm figures. |
wrgmr1 | 27 Nov 2015 6:02 p.m. PST |
I have western Europe in 20mm and western desert in 15mm. I had western Europe in 28mm but sold them all, being that it was always a skirmish type game. Actually I much prefer the 20mm. There's a wide range of figs and vehicles. We play Rapid Fire so platoons, companies and battalions. Pics of an allied attack on a German sea installation, at Trumpeter Salute 2011. Put on by one of our club members. [URL=http://s219.photobucket.com/user/tjm3/media/Trumpeter%20Salute%202011/Salute2011012.jpg.html]
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steamingdave47 | 28 Nov 2015 6:00 a.m. PST |
"Scale creep" bring what it is, I would not be surprised if your old 25mm figures are quite close to some of the modern 20mm ones. I have AB metals which are about 23mm overall height and some plastics which are close to 25mm. If you want to get more " realistic" distances, take a look at 10mm or 1/144. Figures are identifiable, quicker to paint and there some excellent models out there from Minifigs, Pendraken, Arrowhead and the Japanese plastic manufacturers such as Cando, Dragon etc. I play Battlegroup using both 20mm and 10mm depending on the size of the company- 20mm ideal for platoon level, 10mm for company and above. |
Timmo uk | 28 Nov 2015 6:31 a.m. PST |
It's one area where I think we are totally spoilt for choice. I love 1/144 scale, 15mm and 20mm. I think all work on the table-top. Of all of them the 20mm AB figures are the best sculpted and I prefer them to anything I've seen in 25mm as well – purely personal preference. You say you're doing platoon scale skirmishes so they would be my first choice and you can add die-cast armour if you don't fancy making kits. However, if you're not so keen on figure painting then 15mm may be better. The smaller you go the better the weapon ranges start to look. The AFVs look brilliant in 15mm – such a nice size for them. Although I don't doubt there are some great figures in 15mm I'm slightly less keen on them but that's not because they aren't nice in their own right but more that in comparison AB are so good. Having played using 10mm recently I've been totally sold on the look of the table, ranges stat to feel and look better and if you want to get models painted and on the table it has a lot to recommend it. For me Minifigs infantry and Arrowhead vehicles have a great appeal. My view in summary. 10/12mm and 1/144 scale armour looks great and is good for games like IABSM. 15mm makes a really good scale for different scopes of games so if you wanted to play different things it worth a look. PSC are doing great things.
If figures are really your thing over vehicles and you want to do Europe 1944/45 then AB have to be the prime candidate. Finally since models take so long to paint why not get a few of each size and see what you like painting and modelling. If you hate working on one particular size then discard it and move on. Hopefully you'll try one size and love it, however, if you can get what you want in 20mm (or smaller) I wouldn't even look at 25/28mm. YMMV. |
Achtung Minen | 28 Nov 2015 7:43 p.m. PST |
Thomas, that's a gorgeous table you have there. @John, that's great to hear there are some 20mm players in Boston these days! When do you fellows play and is the room for another to stop by try it out? |
wrgmr1 | 28 Nov 2015 11:10 p.m. PST |
Evan, I can't take credit for it, just the pictures. One of our group did all of this with a little help from Chris Leach. We have quite the collection of WW2 20mm figures within our group and have had many fun games. |
John de Terre Neuve | 29 Nov 2015 3:06 a.m. PST |
Hi AM, We usually play at the Hobby Bunker in Malden. The place is open every day for wargaming but Saturdays are the main day. Feel free to drop buy, the gaming group is Boston Trained Bands, you can contact the CoC players through this yahoo group. Always looking for more players. John |
dr beard | 30 Nov 2015 5:02 a.m. PST |
20mm all the way but are you talking 1/72 or 1/76th? Depending on how precise you want to be then you need to be careful. When I started out with WW2 again in 2001 I went with SHQ as they had the most comprehensive range of the late war troops I wanted. I love my SHQ as I like realistically proportioned figures (can't stand the Easter Island brigade) but in my opinion they don't mix with any other range which can be limiting. And also it's more difficult to get 1/76th vehicles. So do some good research into the ranges available and what theatre and era you want to game. You can get absolutely everything in 1/72 and lots of aircraft as well. As for figuring out where your Bren Gunner is then stick the Bren/lmg teams on a 2 man base or a different shape base. |