"Motorized Infantry Squads: Did the Driver Fight?" Topic
12 Posts
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Achtung Minen | 25 Nov 2015 11:32 p.m. PST |
I was looking at the rather massive 14-man motor infantry squad that the Germans apparently used in 1941 ( link ) and I got to thinking… did the driver in these formations actually hop out and fight alongside the rest of the squad? Or did they stay back with the motor pool and guard the vehicles? They were typically issued rifles in every nation's army… but it seems strange to imagine a bunch of trucks or even armoured transports sitting around somewhere untended while the driver risks getting wounded on the front line. Were their national differences about this? |
Martin Rapier | 26 Nov 2015 12:06 a.m. PST |
The vehicle crew stayed with the vehicle, just like they do in modern IFVs, particularly for the Sdkfz 251 crews. That is partly why the armoured schutzen sections are so big. |
lou passejaire | 26 Nov 2015 4:44 a.m. PST |
the main reason was to protect the vehicles, IMO … with a Kfz. 70 too close to the action , you become quickly an unmotorized infantry unit … |
Martin Rapier | 26 Nov 2015 7:38 a.m. PST |
Strangely the Britsh don't seem to have designated drivers in their motor infantry sections, and the US armoured infantry platoons are so huge they can probably manage some co-drivers too:) |
Starfury Rider | 26 Nov 2015 8:09 a.m. PST |
The WEs for the early and later versions of the British Motor Bn do show a 'Driver, IC' for each Section. In the table attached to the 'Notes on the Organization and Tactical employment of a Motor Battalion', IC is referred to as 'in charge', but I later came to find out it meant 'internal combustion', and was a holdover from the interwar years to distinguish between horse and vehicle drivers. The Drill for Action notes for the Motor Platoon state that, after dismount of troops, the driver gets the 15-cwt truck under best local cover and improves the camouflage. I'm pretty sure the German instructions for halftrack mounted Pls have the same advice on making the vehicle less obvious to aerial threats. So another yes for drivers staying with vehicles while Secs/Sqds dismount and go into the infantry fight, as the unit transport needs to be ready to embark the troops for the next move. Gary |
Grelber | 26 Nov 2015 10:18 a.m. PST |
Gavin Lyall in his WWII rules, Operation Warboard, points out that, with the possible exception of the United States, operating a motor vehicle was not remotely a universal skill in 1939-1945, as it is today. Viewed this way, the drivers are trained specialists. I'm sure they were trained to fire rifles, but suspect they only did in extreme cases, rather like cooks, historians, and general officers. Grelber |
Griefbringer | 26 Nov 2015 1:14 p.m. PST |
Regarding the US armored infantry platoons, the halftrack drivers were officially issued with SMGs for self-defence, while the rest of the platoon was armed with M1 Garands or, in the case of platoon leader and MG/mortar crews, with M1 carbines. |
Hornswoggler | 26 Nov 2015 4:54 p.m. PST |
Regarding the US armored infantry platoons, the halftrack drivers were officially issued with SMGs for self-defence… Some time ago I provided evidence that at least in the case of US armoured infantry the driver did have designated roles in some types of dismounted action and provided a link to FM 17-71 Crew Drill for Half-Track Vehicles. TMP link |
Martin Rapier | 27 Nov 2015 12:15 a.m. PST |
I suspected there were designated British drivers, thanks. |
No longer can support TMP | 27 Nov 2015 1:08 p.m. PST |
Hornswoggler, it seems as if the driver leaves the vehicle and becomes essentially the assistant gunner with the DISMOUNT WITH MACHINEGUN (he carries ammo, spare barrel, parts, and medic kit) for the MG if that's what the squad leader requires. Otherwise, he stays with the vehicle. Under general duties, it notes for dismounted action: b. Driver.—(1) When the squad is dismounted to fight on foot, the driver places the vehicle in a position designated by the squad leader. (2) If the launcher is left in the vehicle, the driver assembles it, checks the electrical firing mechanism, and lays out two ammunition bags and six rockets before manning the machine-gun. To me, this suggests that the driver is usually with the vehicle. It's only when the MG is dismounted that the driver could be required to leave the vehicle and it is up to the squad leader. I suspect that usually the driver stays with the vehicle most of the time. |
Griefbringer | 27 Nov 2015 1:29 p.m. PST |
It's only when the MG is dismounted that the driver could be required to leave the vehicle and it is up to the squad leader. I would presume that it is more likely up to the platoon leader to decide whether the drivers should dismount. For example if there is need to relocate the vehicles during the action, then it would be highly desirable to have a driver present for each one. In any case, it was interesting to take a look at those crew drill instructions. I recall having seen at some point on TMP a mention of the US halftrack drivers possibly dismounting with an ammo box, but could not recall what was the source for that. On another note, is there any manufacturer out there that produces a model for a dismounted US halftrack driver advancing with an SMG, spare barrel, spare parts roll, ammo box and vehicular first aid kit. That sounds like a fair bit of things to carry, especially if you happen to be in the halftrack that mounts .50 cal MG. |
Matsuru Sami Kaze | 28 Nov 2015 7:51 p.m. PST |
In Korea a lot of trucks were lost. I'd say the crews fought pretty hard. |
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