"Did the Revolutioary soldiers use bagpipes?" Topic

Did the "Americans have/use bagpipes to march into battle…or on the march ?

I doubt it. The major populations of Highland settlers were Jacobite exiles, and they were forbidden clothing etc that identified them as Highlanders.
Having said that, I have a few pipers set aside for when I do a Widow Moore's Creek Bridge game.
Those would be on the Loyalist side. Why? I have no idea but they were. Probably because the Rebels mistreated them.

As for pipers on the Patriot side, they would gave no reason to, not being Highlanders.

There was a Piper at the Alamo, though!

Anyone with bagpipes will play them at any time they have the chance.

You really just have to shoot them.

The best bagpiper movie scene ever was from Carry on Up the Khyber, get it Jack you'll bust a haggis 8oD.
Cheers and I'm certain bagpipes are and always will be a weapon of war :)

A gentleman is someone who knows how to play the bagpipes but doesn't.

None of your historical "facts" will make me remove the bagpipe tracks from my Napoleonic era music playlist.

Or WWII.

Or post-apocalyptic.

The Highlanders proved surprisingly loyal to the crown, one reason why the eastern Canadian colonies did not join the rebellion. It is a bit of a mystery to me, perhaps as many of them were Catholic they did not trust the mostly Protestant rebels? Of course, these Loyalist Highlanders were allowed their traditional dress, weapons and pipers.

Flora MacDonald (of Prince Charlie fame) emigrated to America and actually raised troops to fight for King George during the revolution.

Paul

any contemporary pictures please

The reasons for the Highlanders supporting King George strange as that may seem are set out in detail in Berleth's Mohawk Valley. Its a mine of information including the fact that Mohawk Johnson was actually an Irishman, one of the O'More's I think, who via an uncle from a rich Anglo Irish family. changed his faith and adopted their name in order to inherit. He acted as a sponsor to transplanted Jacobite families in America. His own family being of the Jacobite persuasion.

The Highlanders turned out with sword and targe to little effect as the terrain neutralised their tactics but its interesting that they still knew how.

Try this:
YouTube link

My (amateur) understanding is that George III reversed the pro-Whig policies of Georges I and II and favored the Tories, hence the adherence of former enemies of the Hanoverian regime to him. On the other hand, the Whigs in Britain were opposed to his policies and many opposed the war in the colonies.

I think perhaps the broadsword and targe might have had some effect were they not trying to cross greased stringers like at Moore's Creek bridge.

Many settlers of Scots descent were former soldiers who had served the Crown in Highland Regiments raised during the Seven Years War, even though they came from districts, clans and families that had come out in favour of the Young Pretender ten years before- not that everyman who fought on the Jacobite side was necessarily a Jacobite, but that's another story.

After the war numerous Highland soldiers took their discharge and settled on lands granted by the Crown, which proved an effective recruiting incentive in the 1770s as well- although not quite with the same results.

Exile Scots, like Flora MacDonald, who had come to America as a result of prejudice against those with Jacobite sympathies- genuine or suspected- might still be monarchists. They had simply wanted a different King to occupy the throne of the United Kingdom.

Imagine, somewhere in a parallel universe, the Americans rose up against the tyrannic rule of King Charles III, not least for his granting of equal rights to Catholics…..

The religious angle is widely ignored, but was a big factor in determining who fought on which side. Loyalists in New England and the NY/NJ area were mainly Anglicans, as opposed to the Evangelical/Episcopalian congregations who formed the bulk of the Rebel support. The more conservative elements of the Dutch churches likewise supported the King, whilst the reformist elements were for Congress. Similarly, the few Indian tribes who supported Congress were Dissenter types; those who fought for the British (the majority) were Church of England.

Anti-Catholicism was a very big thing among the Whigs in America. Enclosed by New France to the north, Florida to the south, and the Spanish lands west of the Mississippi, and split in the middle by Maryland, the Colonists were paranoid about Papism. "Pope Day" (November 5th) was the biggest holiday of the year in pre-war Boston and remained more popular than July 4th for many years after the AWI. Irish Catholics in the middle Colonies also flocked to the Crown after the capture of Philadelphia.

Despite the efforts of Franklin and the Carrolls to garner support from the "habitants", a general – though far from militant – preference for the Crown after the Quebec Act, and the all-too-frequent duplicity of Congress (Wooster shutting the churches on Christmas Eve during the invasion, and Jay publishing a pamphlet claiming George III was raising an army of 10,000 French Catholics to ravage the Colonies, then do the same to Ireland and England) undermined the limited progress they had made. Such was the fear of Royal recruitment amongst open and closet Catholics that Washington attended Midnight Mass in the largest Catholic Church in the Colonies (in Annapolis) in 1778, to attempt to build bridges.

Anti-Catholicism was a very big thing among the Whigs in America

And the Whigs in England. Guy Fawkes Day is anti-Catholic at start. The early Republican party in the US included the anti-Catholic bloc from the failed American Party, the know-nothings. Whereas the Democratic party of the time was often tolerant of Catholics and pro-slavery.

The film Glory includes letters from Colonel Shaw. Note the one where he declares his Black soldiers learn faster than the Irish.

Another factor often overlooked is that many of the Highland and Island "exiles" were forced to emigrate due to a catastrophic rise in rents that began about 1769. The years immediately preceding the American Revolution saw unprecedented emigration from A' Ghàidhealtachd to the Colonies. For example, tiny North Uist saw 200 souls emigrate between 1771 and 1775. Some communities transplanted themselves in bulk, especially in the Carolinas.

As mentioned, much had happened during the reign of George III that had brought many Gaels back to the Crown. Indeed, many saw themselves as the sword and shield of the monarchy. In his Òran do na Fògarraich (A Song to the Exiles), Iain MacCodrum complains:

Siad na h-uaichdarain ghòrach
A chuir fuaradh fo'r srònaibh –
A bhris muineal Rìgh Deòrsa
Nuair a dh'fhògradh na Gàidhil!

How stupid are landlords
Who put your bows to the wind -
Who broke the neck of King George
When the Gael were expelled!

In America, this was reinforced by their relative new-ness and alien culture. Gaelic song/poetry of the period is keenly observant of their status in the eyes of their Anglo (and Dutch, German, etc.) fellow colonists; something akin to but slightly above Indians.

Michael Newton has done very interesting work on this, and I recommend his We're Indians Sure Enough if you want a deeper understanding derived from primary sources.

Scots Highlanders figured prominently in the forming of the 84th Ft, Royal Highland Immigrants

link

Most Scots were Presbyterian/Chuch of Scotland. Where I live few colonial Presbyterian church buildings survived. Most date from the early Federalist period as a lot were burned in raids here in n NJ.

Guy Fawkes Day is anti-Catholic at start.

Funnily enough, it wasn't initially. When the first bonfires were lit, it was to celebrate the deliverance of the King, his family, and his ministers, from being killed and nothing more. At that time, only Fawkes was in custody, and even he had not yet been questioned (his identity was still unknown); whilst many may have assumed a Catholic plot, there were other political elements "in the frame" as well.

To some extent, it did become an anti-Papist celebration up to the late 19th Century – but it only remains so in parts of the country that had been subjected to anti-Protestant purges under earlier monarchs. Lewes, in Sussex, is one such; even today, they burn an effigy of a Pope – note, not THE Pope (as in the current one), but a specific one: Paul V. It was he who issued Papal Bulls releasing English Catholics from loyalty to their sovereign, effectively putting out "contracts" on Elizabeth I and James I/VI.

The Catholic (Jesuit, in fact) school I attended in the 1970s was famous for its "November 5th" firework displays, to which all the local C of E schools were always invited. (That one of the J's was a member of the Guinness family – itself originally Protestant – also attracted the crowds!)

Interesting……Thanks !!

Here's Michael Newton himself writing on the subject last year:
link

I will be brief, sketchy , lack depth, due to health time constraints.
Several books of the era comment on the recruiting of Scots for the colonies. These came in waves with different motivations for each.
An aside, plenty of Scots blood in my family, on both sides. The county and area of my family has an interesting phone book. The largest letter in it is the Mc section. Based on family stories and tradition, the poor Scots who fought for the king were ran out of east Georgia and forced to move west into the border area.
Another interesting comment in the books about Thomas Browne, is that the British offered to pay transportation for the soldier and his family while Patriot recruiters would only send over the soldier.
There was comments on pipers in the Regulator War which took place in North Carolina during 1774-5. Those fought for the mountain side against the King and Tidewater supporters. The mountain side lost but the pardoned Scots proved to be some of the most ardent Loyalist. Being true to their 'pardon oath'.

I have read that many Highlanders were Catholic, hence they were not fond of anti-Catholic Whigs.

It is worthwhile distinguishing here between Scots as a whole and Highlanders, many of the latter, tho' not all, being of Catholic religion in the C18th.Most of the former being Presbyterian. There is still a healthy sectarian divide in Scotland today.

What are the best known examples of the pipes being played in battle on _either_ side during the AWI?