"Panzer IV Turret Skirt - What Is Going On Here?" Topic
11 Posts
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Tom Reed | 25 Nov 2015 10:52 a.m. PST |
The tool box IS missing, but it is not an integral part of the turret. It can be taken off. And as to the turret skirt, I can see one of the brackets that it is attached to. |
shaun from s and s models | 25 Nov 2015 10:54 a.m. PST |
the mid part of the turret skirt has doors in it so you can use the escape doors on the turret sides, it looks like that is missing from the second door. |
Jemima Fawr | 25 Nov 2015 11:12 a.m. PST |
Perhaps the turret-skirt and toolbox were missing due to damage/hit to that part of the turret? |
christot | 25 Nov 2015 11:47 a.m. PST |
something has blown off the turret skirts..probably blown off the box as well |
Garand | 25 Nov 2015 12:05 p.m. PST |
PS and you know what else shocked me? The commander's hatches are the same as those in the PSC Pz IV kit. I think I'll eat my criticisms on that aspect of the model. Ketchup, please.
Not sure what you mean here? The hatches on the PSC kit are for the earlier versions of the Pz IV -- G and back. The H switched to a single piece hatch, so the configuration of the PSC kit is inaccurate if you are building an H version. IMHO the kit works better as an F or a G (with some minor modifications). Damon. |
skippy0001 | 25 Nov 2015 1:21 p.m. PST |
Read that those skirts sometimes fall off during movement. PTRD fire can blow them off. |
Mark 1 | 25 Nov 2015 2:40 p.m. PST |
Read that those skirts sometimes fall off during movement. Skirts could be knocked off during movement. But this was more likely with the hull side skirts than the turret skirts, as they were the more likely to come into contact with the terrain. Also they were more likely to get knocked/torn off in urban or forest areas. Not so likely on the steppes. something has blown off the turret skirts..probably blown off the box as well.
PTRD fire can blow them off. My first guess is also that something has struck the tank and blown the missing parts off. I would not expect that it was a PTRD round. PTRD rounds were small, with no explosive effect. They punched holes rather than blew things off. It might be possible that a PTRD strike could cause a skirt plate to fall off (or be removed by the crew due to deformation), but it is unlikely that a PTRD strike would cause multiple plates to fall off. Of course by 1943 the Soviet infantry formations operated platoons of 18 PTRD rifle teams (which generally organized as multiple multi-gun squads), so it is indeed possible for a tank to have taken many PTRD hits in a single engagement. But this would have been a pretty lucky crew if they took so many hits as to lose multiple skirt plates AND their Rommel-box without the destruction of the tank! Remember that the Pz IV's side armor on either the turret or hull was relatively easily penetrated by the PTRD (hence the reason for the skirts!). More likely, in my view, is that the tank has been hit by an HE round of some sort, which blew off the turret skirt plates and the Rommel-box (or so mangled them that the crew removed them as hazards to operation of the turret). I would guess a hand-grenade or light-to-medium caliber HE, perhaps an 81mm mortar or 76.2mm artillery round. Could also have been a 76.2mm AP round, as Russian AP rounds had explosive filler. I could imagine a round penetrating the turret side skirt and the Rommel-box before exploding. The explosion and the kinetic energy could easily have shredded the Rommel-box and knocked off multiple plates. Just guessing, though. Interesting picture, to be sure. -Mark (aka: Mk 1) |
GROSSMAN | 25 Nov 2015 5:32 p.m. PST |
and the tank in the right background has the back skirt missing as well. These look like they have seen some action, |
Mark 1 | 25 Nov 2015 5:37 p.m. PST |
And the tank in the background on the left has the left hull side skirt missing, but not the right. Also, the tank in the foreground has a deformation on the lower portion of the third left side hull plate. Yes, they have indeed seen some action. (Provides some interesting visual inputs for adding "character" to wargaming minis, don't you think?) -Mark (aka: Mk 1) |
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