"Late War Americans How do they fare?" Topic

Because FOW is the main WW II game in town I am getting back into FoW. However most of my forces are early and mid war and the theme in the local gaming stores is all late war all the time. 1500 to 1600 points seems the norm. I am considering picking up the "Grimbal's Beasts" set with is mostly a tank company supported by an Armored Rifle Platoon. The box states it is about 1350 in points and I happen to have a box of Late War Sherman MlA1 (76) platoon I could add to this or an Armored Artillery Battery to try and hit the 1600 point mark or perhaps another Armored Rifle Platoon. I do not have the Bridge at Ramagen book yet but that is what is suggested in order to run the Grimbal's Beasts set.

Anyway in this tourney style type game with more Pershings and Jadgpanthers on the table than were ever in the war how well does the type of American force do on average in games. I should note I am not a competitive or tourney player but when in Rome one must do as the Romans do. So I would like to at least have an average chance of holding my own even against Jadgpanthers and Jadgtigers, and ISu-122s oh my!?

Anyway in this tourney style type game with more Pershings and Jadgpanthers on the table than were ever in the war how well does the type of American force do on average in games.

Unfortunately that is one of the major misconceptions a lot of people have about Flames of War.

I do not have the Bridge at Ramagen book yet but that is what is suggested in order to run the Grimbal's Beasts set.

And that is one of the major reasons why. People assume things without checking them out. You really need to go get the book. It's necessary for the game and it's a great read. And yes, the Flames of War people know about history and really do go out of their way to use it.

With that said, and unless you're playing some goofy pick-up game where "anything goes", you're going to be fielding an "army" based off of one of the lists in the books. They ARE based on reality.

So the bad news for you is that you'll never field a hoard of Pershings. You might field a small force of them. You'll only ever get a single platoon and you can field 1-5 vanillas or a single super which is how they were fielded historically. So no, you won't be able to field more in a game than ever really appeared on the battlefield. Now there might be a zillion Pershings at the tourney because everyone wanted to field that list, but no, reality holds sway here. And sadly for you a savvy German player will still outgun you, to a degree, and might actually outnumber you!

Pointwise you're already at max points! That is assuming you have the Grimbal's Beasts, and a 5 tank platoon box, and you're going for the Confident Veteran 9th Armored Division. So basically you'll have a late War US armored company with a platoon of Panther equivalents. The bulk of your tanks are still Shermans. With your boxed sets you'll have 8 Shermans (2 command and 6 to split into two platoons (620 points), 3 Pershings (595 points!), and an armored rifle platoon (295 points). So you're 1510 with just the tanks and infantry and you haven't even tweaked your Shermans yet!

Now I'll grant you, the Pershing is a solid tank. You get 10 armor up front and a 32" 2 ROF 14 AT 3+ FP gun. And the super Pershing gets an even better gun and more armor! BUT, they are expensive! So You only get a SINGLE platoon and you have to choose between either vanilla platoon with 1-5 tanks or a single super Pershing who costs 275 point all by his lonesome! You can take the Reluctant Veteran 3rd Armored Division to save on costs but you know how hard it is to get Reluctant Veterans moving when bullets get tossed around and as a tank company you're nearly always going to be attacking! Fortunately the Pershings are always Confident Veterans.

I think I personally would go with an Armored Rifle Company and stick with upgraded Shermans. You'll have a larger force that is more balanced point wise and has big, solid platoons. Then I might consider arty and air units.

But seriously, get the book and read up on what you're getting into and to get a feel for what you're facing.

I think they win the war.

I left out that your two tank command HQ is also 205 points. So you're already over the 1600 point count with just the 9th Armored force. You'll have to trim the list a bit to make it fit.

Tgunner I am going by what it printed on the back of the box set for the Grimball's Beasts and it states the set is 1350 points. Currently there is a 33 percent sale going on at my local gaming store and it seems a good time to take the plunge back into the game. Based on your advice I should just buy the book first then decide.

I also think you misunderstand, I do not want to field a horde of Pershings. That is my perception of many of the games I have watched at my local game store that folks like to bring in "hordes" of Jagpanthers and ISU-122s and of course lots of Pershings.

Yes, you should. Good tactics and a good feel for your forces will win you games. You need that book if you're going to go to a tourney.

As for those hoards, they are probably companies that max on armor and lack staying power. That's why I would be ify on taking the Pershing. They will soak up a lot of points and give you a fairly small unit in return. Flames gives them fire power but it punishes them for victory points. Small expensive platoons can cripple you.

You might want to look at the armored infantry company. It has strong, robust platoons, solid armor support, and all the support trimmings that the tank company has. Not to mention you get a ton of bazookas! Get in close combat and those bazookas will really shine even against armored monsters. Remember, during close assault you are looking to beat their top armor.

Also, look at the 9th Armored Division options. With it you FINALLY get to field Confident Veteran US armored forces. You'll pay for them to be sure, but it's amazing the difference going from Trained to Veteran will make for the lowly Sherman. Your foes who are used to the vanilla Confident Trained US tanks will be in for a bit of a shock.

There are really nice variants of the M4 that are truly nasty killers. The Jumbo and the Easy 8 are nasty cat killers and are cheaper than the Pershing.

You might also want to look at Blood, Guts, and Glory and take a peek at the 4th Armored Division. They are also Confident Veterans and have some nice rules that will take your typical German and Russian players by surprise. Just check out Colonel Abrams!

Also, go hit Scribd and search Flames of War. It's well worth your money and time.

Grimbal's Beasts, a Jumbo , AOP and a Priest battery make a nice variety of forces for an enjoyable game. The only other addition may be a small recon platoon (but isn't as necessary with the AOP).

You should buy Blood Guts and Glory on general principles, as it has the Tank Ace rules inside.