"Double-barrel shotgun, or Double-barreled shotgun?" Topic

We're fixing some typos and minor errors for a second printing of the GUTSHOT CORE RULE BOOK, and Paul, the head of our "Proofing Posse," is on my case about the way we refer to shotguns. I usually call them "double-barrel shotguns" and he says it should be "double-barreled shotguns."

So, I thought I'd run it by the folks here and see what ya'll think. Don't know if it will have any influence on your opinion, but keep in mind that this is a Wild West skirmish game.

Here's a few sample quotes from the book to give you some context:

pg 54: "Stumpy, a feisty, one-legged Deputy armed with gumption and a sawed-off double-barrel shotgun named 'Bessie.'"

pg 89: "both blasts from a double-barreled shotgun... count as one attack"

pg 106: "You may choose to empty both barrels of a double-barreled shotgun or derringer during a single attack."

Mike Mitchell
Hawgleg Publishing

What do the grammarphiles have to say on this one?

If it's a single barrel, which has been doubled, then it's Double-Barreled

If it's used as the description of an item, such as "four cylinder car" or ", then it's a "double barrel, oak stock, etc."

If you consider it in terms of autonomous function... then I'd say it's more like "He's a two-fisted drinker/fighter" or "She's a two-faced deceiver". Then again, these are given to a bit of metaphor, aren't they?

Well, out of taste, with no real knowledge... I'd say it's a Double Barrel Shotgun. It describes the weapon in a clinical fashion.

That first one should read:
"If it's a single barrel, which has been doubled, then it's Doubled-Barrel"

I'm fired.

I don't know. Here in the South, we seem call it a "double Barrel" shotgun. With my very small amount of Old West knowledge, I was of the opinion that a lot of former Confederates soldiers went that direction after the war and would therefore carry their dialect with them. Just my two cents worth.

I have always heard and used 'barreled'

The dash is not needed unless you leave off the word shotgun. Capitalizing is also unnecessary. The correct terms are "double barreled shotgun" or "double-barrel" for short. What you are talking about is also often referred to as a "side-by-side." There are also "over/under," "lever action," "slide action" and "singel barrel" shotguns. All of them are appropriate to the period, though the double-barrel is the one you see in films.

And keep in mind please, not all shotguns are "sawed-off" or "coach guns." Those are used for protection, a hunting shotgun would have a full length barrel and nowhere near the same spread.

And as a last aside, if you want something exotic, there are both pistols and rifles that have a single shotgun barrel added to them, with a second trigger.

Hope that helps some.

"Double barreled" because it is an adjective modifying "shotgun".

It is correct to say, "It has a double barrel", because you're describing a noun (barrel) with an adjective (double).

But, when it explicitly modifies "shotgun", it becomes "double-barreled" as in, "It is double-barreled."

It is not so much as the term itself as is the time in which it is used. 19th century readings of the west tells us Doublebarrelled and we of the 20th and 21st C use double barrel. Around my part here of Virginia and out in the western part of the state the use of both is used. But Jizzo is right in the way it is supposed to be used.

Peter

Fortean2, you are of course referring to the LeMat weapons. Always liked to have a character in my western games with one of these - gave the opponents a bit of a shock. I have only once seen one, a revolving rifle with shotgun barrel, in a film though (can't remember title).

link

As for spelling of double barrel/barreled, I think that in modern English usage either would be acceptable. There is no need to get too hung up on such nuances these days IMHO.

The firing pin on the LeMat can be tilted down to strike the percussion cap for the shotgun barrel. Also the thing weighs a ton, a Desert Eagle is a featherweight compared to that hunk of metal.

It was featured in "The Quick and the Dead" with La Stone.

I always thought they were called Get Off My Lawn. That's what I always hear them being called.

Did anyone look in a dictionary? Websters 10th Collegiate has this to say:

Double-barrel: (noun) a double-barreled gun

Double-barreled: (adjective)

1) of a firearm: having two barrels mounted side by side or one beneath the other

And yes, both were hyphenated.

Steve: I did look in the dictionary, at work and online. Dictionary.com only lists the adjective form. Two office dictionaries listed it differently. Which lead me to the conclusion that there is no consensus on this.

I would tend to say that "double-barreled" is a compound modifier of shotgun, and thus deserving to by hyphenated. However... I thought I'd pose the question here to see if there is a strong feeling on this subject. I'm going to standardize on one of these spellings and wanted some feedback.

Also, tonight when I'm at home, I'll check out my firearms encyclopedias, Knuckleduster Firearms Shop, and other resources.

You could well be right. After all, I'm one of the old farts who still screams every time I hear 'impact' used as a verb ("We're not sure how this will impact the community").

I'm sure that with those sources available to you whatever decision you come to will be perfectly acceptable.

"Double-barreled" would be the most grammatically correct modifier, and even the old controversial (and usage-friendly) American Heritage dictionary uses that.

However, in firearms literature (including among modern industry writers), "double-barreled", "double barreled", "double-barrel", and "double barrel" seem to be used nearly equally often.

In this case, I'd say pick one and be consistent!

Allen

Back to my earlier (double-free) point. There was also a TV western called "Shotgun Slade" - available cheap now on DVD - where the main character used a over/under shotgun/rifle combo. The bad part is that it was a breach-loader for both barrels, meaning only one shot apiece before reloading. Not really convenient in real life, but in the world of TV it all seemed to work out OK.

I agree with the bulk of the others here though, pick whatever looks or sounds best and stick with it.

Back to my earlier (double-free) point. There was also a TV western called "Shotgun Slade" - available cheap now on DVD - where the main character used a over/under shotgun/rifle combo. The bad part is that it was a breach-loader for both barrels, meaning only one shot apiece before reloading. Not really convenient in real life, but in the world of TV it all seemed to work out OK.

I agree with the bulk of the others here though, pick whatever looks or sounds best and stick with it.

Uh, did you post that twice to be funny? Or is this just ironic?

We're probably gonna go with "double-barreled shotgun" and then use it as a hyphenated noun in instances like this: "He pulled out his trusty double-barrel and let 'em have it!"

Here in New Zealand double-barrelled shotguns were very popular with the Maori during the colonial New Zealand Wars of the mid-19th century. They called them "tupara", which I think was their way of "two-barrels"!

By the way, Mark Twain wrote a book called "A Double-Barrelled Detective Story", so you can see what his thoughts were on this word usuage,

Oh, and just to confuse the matter even more, I have seen double-barrelled spelled with one "l' (double-barreled) and two "l"s (double-barrelled).

For instance, if you do a search on Mark Twain's "A Double-Barrelled Detective", you'll find responses with both spellings.

So if you do choose to use this term, you better then decide on the correct spelling too!!!

Although our game is set in the 19th Century, we use modern spellings for things like "double-barreled shotguns."

Of course, we have been known ta toss in a buncha Old West slang here n' there. We reckon it helps put the reader in the mood ta get Gutshot!

Is a Scattergun diffrent from a Shotgun?

Y'all are a bunch of word-mincin, toad-eatin, bacon-stealin, spindly-shanked, grammar-rapin Man-Grannies! It's dubel-barelld Shotgun stoopid!

I have one of those facsimile Sears & Roebuck catalogs from 1909. They sold "Double Barrel" (no hyphen) shotguns. Incidentally, an Aubrey Hammerless went for $69.00 USD ("worth $150") but you could buy the American Bar Lock Wonder for only $10.45. Nothing inspires confidence like an inexpensive shotgun, no sir!

Roly, that's interesting, in that Mario Puzo refers to the Sicilian "lupara" shotgun in "the Godfather".. Are the Maoris and Sicilians the same? Both live on islands...

As for firearms, I bow to Allen, but here is my take.

"Barrel" is not a verb, but a noun, so when it modifies "shotgun", it should be parsed as a noun, not as a verb. I would go with "double-barrel" if I wanted to be pedantic grammar prig. But when I shoot one, I always call it "double barrelled", as does everyone else. I do not notice the hyphen when I speak.

I would love to see a double barrel(led) blunderbus.

Oh, yes. Like Allen says, be consistent, unless you deliberately choose not to, for some obscure reason.

Sorry guys, it's called a "twice fired shoots gun". It is a lot easier to say with less teeth in your mouth...

Brent

Brent: Actually, "twice fired shoots gun" could be misread as a repeater! Dang it! Gosh darn it, mebbe Faustnik is right... medde we's all IS "stoopid."

;-)

By the way, in the RPG world, Sidewinder: Recoiled refers to one as a "side-by-side" shotgun. Also, Gunfighter (by Gold Rush Games) skirts the issue and refers to them as 1-barrel shotguns and 2-barrel shotguns.

We're gonna go with "double-barreled" when it preceeds the word shotgun.

Actually I believed they are called: "Double-barrelled boom sticks."

Buy smart - Buy S Mart.

Tim

... so if you are referring to it by name then "double-barelled shotgun" it is (excuse me I'm English).

LOL ... sawn-off or sawed off?

We call it a "sawn-off" in New Zealand. Never heard of a "sawed-off".

Remember this is a joke and a humorous comment! I don't want anyone to be insulted. I don't think it matters which way it is used, but I would say the title of this thread should be "Anal Retentiveness". Lol. I know there are a lot of us on this forum that just likes to talk and make comments, but it's nice to know there are other anal people like me!
John

Heehee. Heehee. He said "anal". Heehee.

Actually, double-barrled is a compound adjective requiring a hyphen.

Double barrel shotgun, if we didn't know better, could be interpreted as having a barrel twice as long, or twice as thick.

Split the difference, call it a two-barreled shotgun.

Andrew

Hi

The sicilian Lupara is always a sawed off.

R

My (decidely American) dictionary has it as "sawed-off", but for some reason "sawn-off" sounds just as good. Talking to too many furriners, I guess.

Just as long as it's not "sod off".

I've always used sawn-off c.f. sawed-off. Probably a local idiom thing. Whatever was used at the time is right.

Why not just use the proper name coach gun, hand-cannon, scatter-gun, or my favorite street-sweeper, or street howitzer. BTW the S-mart boom-stick is a pump action, though in Evil Dead I believe it is a side by side.

"Why not just use the proper name coach gun, hand-cannon... "

Those names aren't really good choices. They're not as clear as "shotgun," nor do they "feel" right. Plus, I hear "Scatter-gun" and I starting thinking Pirates. Then, there's the whole issue of whether or not it's one word, two, hypenated, whether "scatter" is an adjective of gun or part of a proper noun. Ugh. More problems than you can shake a stick at!

maximusrex - the "boom stick" in AoD is indeed a double-barreled (side-by-side) Remington 12-gauge. I'm not sure what you mean by "...the S-mart boom-stick...". If you mean the weapon used at the end of the movie THAT was a lever-action "winchester" type rifle (that seemed to come fully loaded out of the gun rack with a 50 round magazine.)

Tim

(A.R. MODE - ON)
A "coach gun" is not simply "sawed-off" - it's just got a short barrel length. They're manufactured that way these days for cowboy-style shooting competitions. In the past a stagecoach messenger might have sawn down the barrel on whatever gun was available to suit his needs, but he might have been given a suitably manufactured gun as well.
(A.R. MODE - OFF)

What I really like is the shotguns used in El Dorado and Lightning Jack to make up for a character's lack of hand gun skills. Those were short-barreled shotguns!

Loved Lightning Jack! Hmmmm. Is there a Cuba Gooding Jr. miniature out there?

Just consulted the Oxford English Dictionary. According to those stuffy (and British, so you don't have to listen to them regarding the Old West) academics that write it:

"Double-barrel" is a noun meaning a double-barrelled gun. So you would either call it a "double-barrel", or a "double-barrelled shotgun", but not a "double-barrel shotgun".

That's nice and clear, ain't it?

Side by Side, or written shorthanded as SxS.

As opposed to O/U, for over and under.

My guess is that it's "Frontier Grammer". Either way should be acceptable.

Yikes!!! Some topics need a stake thru the heart and a burned coffin to finish off!!!

As a semi-retired cowboy action shooter, it's a double-barreled shotgun, or a double-barrel (note no shotgun following it). And yes a scattergun is different from a shotgun. A scattergun is usually a single barreled shotgun, with absolutely no choking in the barrel. So it shoots a very large, spreadout pattern, that is VERY effective at short range, but beyond about 20-25 yards, the pattern is too dispersed to be effective (or deadly for that matter).

docdennis1968: You got that right! How did this thing get started again?

Someone blast it with a double-barreled shotgun and put it out of its misery!
;-)