"SYW limbers - costly decision advice required." Topic

I'm toying with spending some of my Christmas figure presents money (my wife gives me a £150.00 GBP budget every year for my main present) on SYW limbers.

At present I don't have any and use the usual expedients for representing limbered guns on the table. I am just finishing the three army (Prussian, Russian, Austrian) collection and wonder if now it the time to splurge.

Problem.

It's quite a big collection with 18 guns and howitzer batteries (2 guns each), all in 28mm. Even using two horse limbers that's a whopping £352.80 GBP, and I'd like four horse limbers for half of them, bringing the total up to £421.20 GBP.

That is a lot more than I want to spend – a lot, lot more – on something that doesn't get to roll dice.

O.K. I can use one limber to represent a two gun battery in transit – the total base length would still be about 18cm including the gun – so that cuts the price in half. That is still over £200.00 GBP

O.K. So I will not need limbers for everything in a typical game. Possibly I'll only usually need three limbers per army (9 total). That cuts the price again – to around £105.00 GBP

Now we are getting nearer to the truth. This is more the kind of money and nearer to what I'll actually use.

But this supposes I have three designated limbers per army, painted in the national artillery colour. What if I don't paint the limbers in national colour? What, if like my ammunition wagons (bought for the Zorndorf game) I paint them in natural wood so than they be used for any army? That way I just need six limbers, bring down the cost again, and they could all be used for one army if need be.

So national colours like the guns..

..or natural colours like my multi-national wagons.

Your advice please. Thanks,

James

If you wish to be "done" with the project paint them a generic color. If you want to continue on a few more years paint in national colors.

It's a beautiful collection. Well done.

If you wish to be "done" with the project

I do, I do, by crikey, I do!

I'll have painted over 2500 of the things by the end of the year and I'm ready to start painting this 28Kg box of Peninsular Napoleonics that arrived over six months ago!

I bought some wheels, and scratch built the timber frames for my limbers. I used one lead model as my example, and bought some basswood scale timbers.
I traded some time for a lot if money.

I agree with Dan, mate, go with natural wood. That's what I did with my 18mm SYW limbers for the same reason you give- they can be used for any of the contingents until I have enough painted an based to cover each. Later on, if you decide to get more- enough for each army- then you can paint them in appropriate colours.

Cheers.

Dal.

Generic. Weren't many managed by civilian contractors anyway?

Weren't many managed by civilian contractors anyway?

I think the drivers and animals were contracted by the state from civilian sources; limbers and wagons were owned and supplied by the state. I suppose painting them stopped them being easily stolen.

James, do you plan on leaving the limbers on the table during the game or just to mark the artillery in transit, then remove them when the battery unlimbers?

I have found that leaving the limbers on the table takes up an enormous amount of space and leads to problems maneuvering units around them during the battle.

Eric

Have you considered RSM figures, from Dayton Painting Consortium here in the US? They sell a pack of 2 limbers, each with 2 horses and a rider for $8.40 USD. RSM figures are a bit more slender than the figures in the pics you posted, are very compatible with Eureka, Minden, Fife and Drum, and Perry figures, and the size difference wouldn't be very noticeable if you were using them as support troops away from the main infantry formations. Their web site is: dpcltd.com There would be shipping to pay, but I don't know how much that would add. Hope this helps. Just my $.02 USD. Tom

Hi Eric,

I know what you mean. I'd probably leave one or two on the table as scenic items for 'easy pick up as required', the rest would sit in their cabinet, but those on table would be moveable / removable by players requiring space if they were not in use. Not terribly historical, as artillery parks were a notorious hindrance to manoeuvre but, as you say historical or not, they are a pain in the neck on a war game table.

James

Hi Tom M, that address is for sale.

I hadn't considered other than Front Rank: in these straightened times I would like to support a home grown company – I'm using FR exclusively for my Napoleonics and want to make sure they stay in business.

James,
Fair enough, always good to support the home team. I did mess up the web address: it should have been: dpcltdcom.org which is their address – just checked it. Good luck, Tom

James, Im afraid that the expensive option is the only correct one. I think you do too……
Nigel
nigbilpainter.blogspot.com

I need (want ? ;-)) limbers for all my guns in every period. This will probably take years, but who cares ? I have started the middle fifties of my life 19 years ago ! As a fan of your beautiful armies I will predict that you will not be happy (in the long run) not to have used the correct colours.

"I have found that leaving the limbers on the table takes up an enormous amount of space and leads to problems maneuvering units around them during the battle." Of course Eric is quite right and this is the reason I want them on the table ! Many years ago Heroics & Ros published their 6mm figures with the slogan "no more zipping around with sporty little batallions". Der Alte Fritz showed in his blog a picture of a two gun battery with limbers and ammunition wagon:
link

Even a pain in the neck can somehow be fun ;-)))))

Here's the correct link for Dayton Painting Consortium/RSM-95

dpcltdcom.org

Jim

OOPS, should have read the next message to see that Tom corrected himself without my help.

Buy more !!! Always buy more !!!

Mike B

I just use the illusion of limbers – I have stands of 4 limber horses, and these are placed before the guns (nose to tail, so to speak) to show they are limbered.

I couldn't imagine painting designated limbers for each nation, each period…..ouch.

First of all James, you have an absolutely beautiful collection – congratulations! I play mostly 15mm, but the only period for which I have limbers is the ACW, and that mostly because I acquired them years ago.

Unless they are needed as a gamer marker for the set of rules you're using, they are probably better left off entirely. They are expensive and time consuming (not to mention, boring to paint), and take up an inordinate amount of room on the battlefield. They cause a battery to be way out of scale, especially in its depth when limbered on a road.

I use a modified version of Fire and Fury for all of my Horse and Musket periods, so a limber "marker" is helpful to show the status of batteries, either limbered or unlimbered. However, in the other periods, I use a 1" square base with just two horses, with possibly a rider on one of them, to represent the limbers. Painting and basing a couple of horses in harness is a lot less expensive, and seems to work just as well, or even better, especially for those 18th Century periods in which limbers were overly large. What's more, a horse in a harness looks pretty much the same throughout history, so the same limber markers can be used for SYW, AWI, Napoleonics, etc.

In the end, the choice as to whether or not to include them is a personal one. If the added detail is important to you, then by all means include them!

I would be pragmatic about this and say buy the minimum that is needed to give a sense of accomplishment.

That aside, I would like to see that package opened before Christmas as I too have plans for the Peninsular campaigns.

Cheers,
Robert

You don't do anything by half measures in any of your collections, so why start now? I'd go with limbers specific to each country – I don't think that you will regret it.

Nine limber sets in total does not seem too onerous to paint and as you say, you probably won't use all of your artillery pieces in any one game.

The whole purpose of limbers in a wargame is to clog the roads and impede your deployment.
Go for it!

National colours. Historically accurate and it would annoy me if I did take a short cut every time I saw them.

On second thought, I'd paint twice as many as you'd need per army, just in case you break or lose some. And only limbers painted in exactly the right colors for each army. Limber collecting – a whole new hobby!

Brent, you are a very evil influence, shame on you (grin).

And when you find that you have too many, contact me so that I can buy them from you.

Go for it James! National colours.