"Cavalry and multiple line reserves" Topic

Coming from the "the last reserve" thread.

How can rules handle cavalry attacks where the first line retires past the flanks of the second line so the second and other lines can fulfil their proper function and counter attack or face down the successful enemy front line.

Given the comparative speed of cavalry action much can happen in the time it takes infantry to close with each other but turns in most rules or games typically treat these combats similarly within the turn.

Last Reserve thread

TMP link

How can rules handle cavalry attacks where the first line retires past the flanks of the second line so the second and other lines can fulfil their proper function and counter attack or face down the successful enemy front line.

Rules about interpenetration are the key, I think.

You may need to change the rules you play!
Typically, withdrawal at a set allowable angle or the winner blows through. The second line is then allowed to counter charge a foe charging them.
There maybe a condition where, if the second line is too close ( you chose a poor deployment/crammed too much forward), then the above is not allowed and per Major B… interpenetration is in affect and things go bad for that force.
Carnage and Glory addresses it…
Empire II, III, & V addresses
Legacy of Glory addresses
El Sans Resultant addresses
Fire n Fury or AoE addresses
G d B Addresses
R&E addresses
Etc

MG

Oh my my cavalry now.

This is quite detailed in Okunev, In Roquencourt I just gone through ( not too,much about cav… As was into infantry back then…
All in French of course.
They stress the needs for intervals, citing examples.

If you want to accurately model that you need to represent the squadron and not the regiment. Few rules do that. I put together a few 1:1 Cuirassier brigades a year or so ago for Pico Armor. You CAN do this with 3mm if you have some rule adjustments, but if you're using large figs then base depth becomes such an issue representation breaks down and its impossible. You have to abstract the squadron-level action into the large regimental or even brigade action. So that may be your answer there- forget about it and concentrate on the larger unit outcomes.

F..m …s yes you are right, in sqadrons. Obviously it then much depends on the time, ratios,etc. Scales of the game.
Not easy to represent even moderate sized combat on a regular table as depth hardly then over 1-2 km which is nothing for cavalry movements.

A bit like T34 on an open tactical table.

Jcfrog- I suppose you weren't out when the attacks happened, but still, I hope you and yours are alright! Everyone's thinking about and sending well-wished to France right now!

Not specifically Napoleonic, King of the Battlefield has a system which allows reserves to be brought into a cavalry melee within a single turn. It works really well. I believe the author is working on a Napoleonic version.

Oukunev(?) just as

Oukunef : Examen Raisoné des Propriétés des Trois Armes, Paris 1832 ???

Hope you are well JcFrog

Ok far from those places, still in the middle of " them" though.

Yes that okunev. He has obvious small errors though.
Puts some old guards in initial assault at Waterloo…
For ex typical Russian disregard about reverse slope. Ignored into his critics about explanation of French errors in Spain.
Very interesting his probably typical vision of the limited use of skirmishers, not at all like Marbot etc./ fr practice.

Roquencourt course is very interesting for gamers as it describes the way battles go, movements, tactics, spacings. 1838 with obviously having read other nations writings, cited at the end. A goid compendium… Written for professionals of the time.
Even cites the various " opinions". / proposals fashionable then.
710 pages or more ( says tome 3, not sure all is in the 710 pages(!) I downloaded. Obviously I did not read all…yet.

"not at all like Marbot etc./ fr practice."

Marbot though agrees on tirailleurs de marche, de bataille et grande bande.

Good stuff on cavalry tactics in osprey tactics ligth and heavy cav.
Googlr books on line/ downloadable

Von Bismarck ( no not that one)
Lectures on the tactics of cavalry 1827
Cited in fr course I was talking about earlier on other thread.

Also Balk who wrote much later but he goes into history and mounted use did not change that much. In there a very interesting description of Lava tactics of cossacks.

Jcfrog:

Balk? Is that de Beck? Haven't heard of either Balk or Roquencourt. What did they write?

Roquancourt wrote a 4 volume work : Course Complet d' Art et d'Histoire Militaires, it is on google books for download.

Balck was a Colonel in the German Army his works were translated into English just before WWI, several works on google as well.

Also good for cavalry

Nachrichten und Betrachtungen über die Schicksale und Thaten der Reuterei in den Feldzügen Friedrichs des Großen und in denen neuerer Zeit – 2 volumes – covers the Napoleonic time up to 1813, also available on google books

Yes zat ones

Yes, the sources you quote are good ones especially Balck. I think the translation by Kruger (or Krueger) is available to download on Internet Archive.

My issue is to come up with a mechanism for all of this in a wargame. My current thinking is to use the tactical rating of the formation commander (think brigade or division) to determine the number or percent of squadrons to engage in the first round. Determine the outcome then fight another round between the winning side and the supports with a bonus to the supports for not being disordered by the first round.