"Average Tank Battle Distance in N. Africa 1941-42? " Topic

What was the average distance in which tanks fought in the N.Africa Desert? Not speaking about the theorical range of guns that is usually longer. Are there studies about it?

Also how was common the use of smoke during tank combat? I am thinking about tank to tank battles… thank you.

I can't provide any engagement data nor can I provide any stats on smoke usage (either as MA or launchers), but I do know that in observing WW2 game play for the past 20+ years, I have witnessed maybe twice where a player uses the smoke launchers on a tank. Maybe three times. I doubt if that gives an accurate (or even close to) historical representation, but it is interesting.

Normal engagement range usually starts at 1000 yards and get closer. N. Africa would be no different. Larger guns might start shooting at 1500 yards but accuracy usually sharply falls off past 1000 yards.

In late 1941 effective range was thought to be around 750m for the 2 pounder and somewhat over 1000m for the short 50mm. However, shooting often started at ranges far in excess of that. On Totensonntag 1941, South African 5th Brigade opened up with 2 pounders, 25 pounders and small arms at 3000 yards and there is a question about them running out of ammunition before they were overrun.

From memory, I think Crisp (in Brazen Chariots) gives accounts of his Honey opening up at 1500 yards but he also indicates that they had little chance of hitting / doing any damage at that range, or much closer ranges for that matter. He also, from memory, attests to German 50mm guns effectively out ranging the 2 pounder by some distance.

Paraphrased from Carvers 'Tobruk', "Tanks had to get within 1000 yards of each to be able to knock each other out, and in the desert that seemed very close".

Visibility was actually quite poor in the desert due to heat haze and undulations.

One amusing quote from ex-TMPer John Salt was that most firefights take place at ranges just outside the effective ranges of the weapons involved. It is only the very brave who place themselves within effective range.

So if a 2pdr effective range is 750 yards, expect them to be blatting away at 800+ yards:)

Visibility was actually quite poor in the desert due to heat haze and undulations.

Depending on where you were and what time of year it was.

The plain behind the escarpments was almost dead flat for long distances, 'folds' often being thousands of yards apart.

Operation Crusader, which saw the biggest tank Vs tank battles of the campaign was fought in November / December 41. There was no heat haze – it was often fought under leaden skies, and in greatcoats.

I've read somewhere in the past that most gunners preferred 6-800 yards. Any less made tracking the target difficult and anymore was a visibility issue due to haze etc.

The number that I keep seeing, hearing and reading is 800yd effective range.

A simple test. Drive a car, park it in the open flat ground and figure out what 800 yards, 1000 yards etc is. Then walk that distance and turn around. At 1000 yards I would expect that target is very small to the naked eye, especially if painted in a dull color and "blends with the terrain" a bit. Bright red will give distorted results. Remember that the car is stationary. Targets moving about at 1000 yards greatly decreases the hits to…. almost the "lucky strike" percentages using the naked eye for Mark I gunnery. With WWII era optics, the ability to hit, depending on visibility, maybe out to 1500-2000 ranges. Against moving targets… near impossible but a stationary target should be able to hit after a few shots. The gunner's skill will have noticeable effect with quicker gun ranging and tracking the target.

Most stunning camouflage effect I saw was a zoo in Spain. They had a compound with half a dozen bears in. The bears were probably no more than 20 yards away and in the open.

You couldn't see them.

Being the local species, their coat was the same colour as the local stone making up the terrain in their compound. They merged in – looked like rocks.

Every now and then, one of the rocks would move.

I cant remember exact distances, but from my " bronce chariots" reading, i recall a lot of shots falling short because they were firing at very long range. Even if they could reach the target, it was very difficult to estimate the right distance, so they used the first shots as a reference.

Recommend you pick up a copy of "Tank Battles in Miniature 1 – A wargamer's guide to the Western Desert Campaign 1940-1942" by Donald Featherstone. I know it sounds a bit old hat, but Featherstone served 18 months in the desert with the Royal Tank Regiment and served up a lot of useful "real deal" information on this campaign. For example, he listed engagement ranges as follows -
Maximum effective range for the 2-pounder: 800 yds.
Maximum effective engagement range for 88mm: 2800-3000 yds.

Another useful book is "Tank Combat in North Africa , The Opening Rounds: Operations Sonnenblume, Brevity, Skorpion and Battleaxe February 1941 – June 1941", by Thomas Jentz.

My impression upon reading these books is that tank and anti-tank gun ranges were broadly governed by the distance at which the firing gun was thought capable of penetrating the armor of the target.

FWIW

B

Robert Forczyk in his _Tank Warfare on the Eastern Front_ comments that the Tiger had an effective kill range there of 1000-1200 yards and that "very few tank engagements in WW2 took place beyond that range." FWIW.