DavePauwels | 28 Oct 2015 12:29 p.m. PST |
This is pretty preliminary information, but I have it on good authority that there will finally be a DBA event at AdeptiCon next April. The plan is for a 5-round, Swiss-style tournament in 15mm. It'll be a nominally themed event: Greek Classical to Rise of Rome. And we're working on sponsorship and prize support. More details to come. adepticon.org/?page_id=9973 |
Who asked this joker | 28 Oct 2015 1:12 p.m. PST |
Glad to see DBA 3.0 being represented there. I do have a minor quibble about the convention page. It is pretty difficult to figure out where the convention is. Not a big deal for those that have been. But for those, like myself who have never been, Schaumberg could be anywhere. Address should always be available at a glance…at least IMHO. |
jefritrout | 28 Oct 2015 1:41 p.m. PST |
I managed to find it last year. It is a couple of miles NW of Chicago. |
Tony S | 28 Oct 2015 2:29 p.m. PST |
Glad to see DBA 3.0 being represented there. Hear hear! |
lkmjbc3 | 28 Oct 2015 3:11 p.m. PST |
I may try to make this! It is only 7 hrs…. long but doable. Joe Collins |
Attalus I | 28 Oct 2015 4:05 p.m. PST |
If you go to the Marriott website & look up the Renaissance Hotel in Schaumburg IL, you will find a map & directions. |
Attalus I | 28 Oct 2015 4:09 p.m. PST |
By the way, who would be running the tournament? We have several people in that area who play 3.0. |
Extra Crispy | 28 Oct 2015 7:37 p.m. PST |
What is a Swiss style tournament? |
Bobgnar | 28 Oct 2015 8:43 p.m. PST |
Perhaps "Swiss Chess Tournament" In first round players are paired in some way, if possible seeded by ability in reverse order. Or by historical matches. Then the winners of the first round play each other, and the losers play each other. Then players are matched by points so high points play each other and likewise players with low scores. No player is eliminated. Better to have round robin but often too many players for the allowed time. Local gamers attend this con, I will try to go too. I found the web page, and a record for "De Bellis AdeptiConis Tournament" Where are the details, and why not listed as plain DBA? Is there some gimmicky game planed? |
Bowman | 29 Oct 2015 6:35 a.m. PST |
Just went to the Adepticon site. The "Hobby Seminars" are amazing! I hope the Little Wars crew bring in Ken Schlotfeldt from Badger for a few seminars. |
DavePauwels | 29 Oct 2015 8:42 a.m. PST |
Swiss style means everyone play every round – no one is eliminated from play. You're scoring in each of the five games will determine your final ranking. As per the site, the listing is preliminary. More details will be released. We will have a rules/scoring PDF available shortly, actually. The 'De Bellis AdeptiConis' is more of a marketing/branding title. It sounds a little better than 'Plain DBA' – which it is. 3.0 to be specific. The only difference will be that we supply the terrain – we should have plenty of basic elements (BUAs, forests, hills). Currently, I'm personally running the tournament. I previously helped organize the hobby seminars and taught painting classes, but I love DBA and really wanted to see an event at AdeptiCon. I'm hoping a successful first year kicks off a long run of events. If you have any questions or want to offer any suggestions, please PM me or email me at freemarscomic@gmail.com. I am 100% willing/happy to hear from potential attendees or anyone that has experience running a DBA tournament! The one piece of information I can share now is the list of armies. For our first year, we're trying to keep a (roughly) historical theme. I think getting this out as soon as possible will give players more time to plan and paint. Classical (600 BC 146 BC) I/6c Early Bedouin I/7cd Early Libyan I/14e Early Northern Barbarian I/35cd Cypriot and Phoenician I/36 Italian Hill Tribes I/43ab Kimmerian/Skythian I/47 Illyrian I/48 Thracian I/50 Lydian I/52abcdefghi Early Hoplite Greek I/53 Saitic Egyptian I/54 Early Macedonian I/55abcde Latin, Early Roman, Early Estrucan & Umbrian I/56ab Kyrenean Greek I/57ab Etruscan League I/58 Meroitic Kush I/59 Tullian Roman I/60abc Early Achaemenid Persian I/61ab Early Carthaginian I/62 Lykian I/63 Paionian II/1 Republican Indian II/2 Mountain Indian II/3 Classical Indian II/5abcdefghi Later Hoplite Greek II/6 Bithynian II/7 Later Achaemenid Persian II/8abc Campanian, Apulian, Lucanian or Bruttian II/9 Syracusan II/10 Camillan Roman II/11 Gallic II/12 Alexandrian Macedonian II/13 Samnite II/14 Ariarathid Kappadokian II/15 Alexandrian Imperial II/16abcd Asiatic Early Successor II/17 Lysimachid II/18abcde Macedonian Early Successor II/19abcd Seleucid II/20abc Ptolemaic II/22af Arabo-Aramean II/23abc Later Pre-Islamic Arab II/24 Early Rhoxolani Sarmatian II/25 Bosporan II/26 Siracae, Iazyges and L. Rhoxolani Sarmatian II/27ab Pyrrhic II/28b Early Armenian and Gordyene II/30ab Galatian II/31abcdefghij Hellenistic Greek II/32 Later Carthaginian II/33 Polybian Roman II/34 Attalid Pergamene II/35 Later Macedonian II/36ab Graeco-Bractrian and Graeco-Indian II/37 Parthian II/39abc Ancient Spanish II/40 Numidian and Early Moorish II/43 Maccabean Jewish II/44 Commagene |
Attalus I | 29 Oct 2015 8:50 a.m. PST |
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DavePauwels | 29 Oct 2015 9:00 a.m. PST |
Attalus I- thanks for the vote of confidence. It is appreciated. Again, shoot me a PM or email me with any suggestions. Unlike some tournaments/events, I think getting input from players before hand will be invaluable. The goal is to make this inaugural event a historic start to a long running tournament(s). |
Dervel | 29 Oct 2015 11:58 a.m. PST |
Dave, That is great that you are getting a DBA event at Adepticon. What size playing area do you plan to use? |
DavePauwels | 29 Oct 2015 12:33 p.m. PST |
Dervel – 24" square/standard for 15mm. Though I suspect that we may have a few themed tables that might be slightly larger. Terrain is a priority across the board at AdeptiCon, and my intent is to make the DBA boards as cool as possible. |
lkmjbc3 | 29 Oct 2015 3:10 p.m. PST |
Dave: I will try and get a group from Nashville to come up. I could also run some Historical Battle games… Joe Collins |
Bobgnar | 29 Oct 2015 7:39 p.m. PST |
Thanks for all the details, this is sounding like it will be a really great event. Having historical enemies in the lineup is a very good idea. It's rare to have a five game tournament in the United States, 5 hours will give everyone a good fix of DBA three :-) small piece of advice from a potential player, just play the rules as they are written don't try to make up any House rules. Providing terrain is also a very nice idea. You should be sure to allow players to use their own however if they want to bring it. 2 foot boards is a good way to go. Looking forward to hearing of more details as we go along. |
DavePauwels | 29 Oct 2015 8:25 p.m. PST |
I also realized that I made a few grammatical errors in my long post above, so I apologize for that. I typed it too quickly. Joe – having a group come up from Nashville would be fantastic! Bobgnar – I agree with you 100%. No house rules. Certainly not for our inaugural event. And I also think giving players the option to use their own terrain is probably a good idea as well. We'll have a collection on hand, however, just in case. This is exactly the kind of input I was hoping for – thanks. The plan is to have at least a couple cool trophies (for the tournament winner and for the best painted army). We also hope to have some solid prize support/sponsorship. |
Battle Cry Bill | 30 Oct 2015 11:34 a.m. PST |
Dave, Attalus and I ran some DBA Introductory games last year at Little Wars (in 54mm) and had 8 players over 2 sessions, so there is interest out there. If you can get some of the long time players to come that would be great. I have started working with the Little Wars organizers on getting a DBA area set up at Little Wars so we can run some historical tournaments (as you are), Big Battle DBA and maybe some campaign type events. It would be great to get some regular gaming going in the Chicago area too. Bill Hupp T&R Miniatures |
Attalus I | 30 Oct 2015 5:24 p.m. PST |
I think that the Midwest has a lot of DBA 3.0 growth potential. |
Dervel | 31 Oct 2015 6:09 a.m. PST |
Dave, Will you be using the 3.0 FAQ? PDF link |
Bobgnar | 31 Oct 2015 8:52 a.m. PST |
I'm hoping to get many of our dozen or so local DBA three players to attend. We use the current FAQ to resolve questions that come up, why not. Most of those are fairly rare situations but they're handy to have when you need them. |
Dervel | 31 Oct 2015 11:29 a.m. PST |
Bob, I was asking Dave because it is quite normal to ask which version of FAQ or Errata level is being applied to a tournament. |
DavePauwels | 02 Nov 2015 9:27 a.m. PST |
Dervel – YES! After doing some research, it seems like the FAQ you link to is widely accepted way to go. Everything seems pretty straight-forward. I've got an event flyer ready to post – I just need to host the PDF somewhere and I'll have it up sometime today. Once it gets closer to registration going live, we'll have all the pertinent info up in the event description. I will say this, between the interest here and the emails I've gotten, we may have to expand the tournament slightly. Which is a great "problem" to have. |
Battle Cry Bill | 02 Nov 2015 10:20 a.m. PST |
Joe please do come and run some Historial Battles. Please also consider coming to Little Wars a month later. We are trying to get that organized for this year too. Bill |
Battle Cry Bill | 02 Nov 2015 10:22 a.m. PST |
Dave, You may want to consider a number of DBA events if the crowd is big enough. HoTT makes a lot of sense at Adepticon too. You should also consider posting a news/tournament notice on the Fanaticus forum. I am local (Glen Ellyn) and would be happy to help out running things. Bill Hupp T&R MIniatures |
DavePauwels | 02 Nov 2015 10:47 a.m. PST |
PDF link Bill- the issue will be that registration/event submission is closed and space is allocated. Personally, I had the time to run this one event. I'm absolutely sure we can expand the DBx offerings the following year; I guess I wish we had had more interest in the event submission phase. There are certainly other Ancients/historical games at AdeptiCon, so hopefully there's additional reason to attend. What may be a good idea is to plan/organize a sort of test-run. Maybe a mini-DBA 3.0 tournament at Games Plus? |
Thomas Thomas | 02 Nov 2015 3:35 p.m. PST |
The current FAQ produced by Joe Collins et al has been vetted by the Barkers and received their input and blessing. The answers are as official as we can make them and are not house rules. TomT |
Dervel | 03 Nov 2015 6:00 a.m. PST |
Dave, I think it is great you are getting more historical gaming going at Adepticon. I know a lot quite a few guys from my area that regularly attend. They are usually drawn to the Warhammer tournaments. However many of them are now trying Bolt Action, SAGA and even DBA… A couple of points for your Tournament. I know there is a big out cry not to use house rules, but these are just suggestions to make your event smoother. You may want to consider a "no rivers" terrain policy. Rivers tend to slow play or create draws. Also, they are an area of the rules with some differences of opinion on how to interpret them. You may want to limit roads to 1 per battlefield, maybe 2… With 3 you can get some interesting setups with a little cheese sprinkled on top. I have not tried the BUA's with the new rules, but this is another terrain piece that you should examine before the event and make sure you are comfortable with how to adjudicate any conflicts. I think Edifices is covered pretty well in the FAQ (if it's a camp, it's a camp)… I am not so sure about the BUA's, it is just important that you are comfortable with them. |
LEGION 1950 | 03 Nov 2015 8:59 a.m. PST |
We will be running Caesar in Gaul game this year It will be in 28mm!!!!!!!!! Mike Adams P.S. This is a open game so anyone can play!!!!!!!!! |
Bobgnar | 03 Nov 2015 11:02 a.m. PST |
In DBA three Rivers have been toned down quite a bit. No more needing A special dice roll to cross them. " A score of 1 or 2 indicates that the river is paltry, too shallow and easy banked to aid defence and can be passed through as if good going, 3 or 4 that it slows crossing and its banks aid defence, 5 or 6 that it slows crossing, its banks aid defence and that only single elements or elements in or forming column can cross it during the game, wider groups stopping at the near bank. " They do tend to slow down tournament games which have a limited timeframe, but not as much so as with DBA 2.2. I am not aware of any problems currently associated with using rivers. Would like to know more about that. Phil has eliminated grated cheese regarding the placement of roads, as you can only have two not three at some believe "CHOOSING AND PLACING FEATURES The defending player chooses and places 1-2 compulsory and 2-3 optional features from those permitted. Those chosen must include BAD or ROUGH GOING (as defined below) or a River or Waterway, and cannot include more than 1 each of Waterway, River, Oasis, Gully or BUA, or 2 roads, or 3 each of any other feature type. Waterways must be placed first, then compulsory features, then others. " Discussions about BUA need to consider that there are actually four different types now. It is useful to break down the four types for consideration. There is the city which is much like the DBA 2 BUA. The fort is a new type that allows for a garrison but has no internal people or game-winning value. Likewise the Hamlet is new and is just a small town counting as rough going. The edifice is a monuments or temple or construction that is bad going and in some circumstances can be used as a camp. If you eliminate all BUA than you require A defender with an arable army to have plough as it's only required feature. Don't worry about the terrain just let the players pick what they want. Everything has some sort of Challenge, that's what makes the game interesting |
Dervel | 03 Nov 2015 11:23 a.m. PST |
Bob, Interesting to hear you can only have 2 roads. Where is that in the rules for future reference? Also, the QRS shows 3? |
Dervel | 03 Nov 2015 2:52 p.m. PST |
Never mind, I think I found it… 2 roads. |
Bobgnar | 03 Nov 2015 7:18 p.m. PST |
Please see my verbatim quote above. I think there are about half a dozen to 10 various QRS's around. Which one are you looking at? What are the river problems that you mentioned? |
Dervel | 04 Nov 2015 5:43 a.m. PST |
I was looking at the QRS which is posted on the same blog as the FAQ, it just shows roads as an optional terrain, but this could be an omission due to space or I missed a note somewhere? I did miss the comment in the terrain rules section because I was looking under roads in linear terrain, and you did clearly quote it… like I said thanks! Regarding rivers, I like using them in historical and scenario battles… I don't think they work well in tournaments. As far as rivers go in 3.0 I was under the impression from this thread: link and other discussions that there may still be some confusion on how to handle every situation (especially recoils and fleeing). Same issue with BUA's (in their various forms). When running a tournament, and especially at a new forum like Adepticon, the last thing you want is rules discussions or worse disagreements. Dave was asking for suggestions on the tournaments. I have run quite a few tournaments in 2.2 and 2.2+ and I found leaving out Rivers and BUA's to be helpful and not really an issue. If BUA's are now integral to some of the terrain choices, then as I said above, as a referee, make sure you are ready to handle any questions that arise. I do allow rivers in our campaign games, because they are great for defenders to use as a delay tactic. In tournaments, they typically just slow down play.
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Thomas Thomas | 04 Nov 2015 10:31 a.m. PST |
The latest FAQ covered Rivers and answered all questions about them (that we knew of). The answers are vetted and approved by the Barkers. If there are questions not covered by the FAQ please let me know as I'm responsible for collecting them and getting them answered. TomT |
Dervel | 04 Nov 2015 1:40 p.m. PST |
Tom, There was an issue raised by Bob actually in the long thread I linked above about an element that was forced to recoil with it's edge already on a river bank. In the discussion it was treated differently than an element which was already in the river…. I don't think I ever saw an official response on the thread, but I stopped reading it. i.e. an element forced to recoil would stop at the edge, an element in a river would simply recoil, but an element already at the edge could not "start" a recoil and was destroyed…. the general agreement on the thread was this did not make sense. I would interpret the FAQ to be that rivers do not effect recoils in anyway? is this the correct interpretation? i.e. a river does not effect recoil or fleeing regardless of the elements starting position relative to the river? |
Bobgnar | 06 Nov 2015 9:16 a.m. PST |
As long as you're going to talk about Rivers here, my problem was with this rule: "A river can only be entered when attempting to cross it." Is a recoil an attempt to cross a river? The F AQ. States that it is. |
Thomas Thomas | 06 Nov 2015 10:04 a.m. PST |
Rivers do not stop Recoil. Flees are covered by this rule: "[A Fleeing element] is destroyed if it starts with an enemy front edge in contact with its flank or rear edges, or if after turning it cannot move at all, or if it enters any river." So you can Recoil into a River but not Flee into one. Recoils and Flees are outcome moves and use their own set of rules. TomT |