"Cold War Commander - Help Me Like It" Topic

I've owned Cold War Commander for several years but in that time have only played a pair of small solo games. From reading a bunch of reviews online I have an issue with the rules that is fairly common, namely that it often takes several stands firing on one unit to knock it out. And that hits are removed after each turn. This goes against nearly everything else I've read about modern armored combat and makes the rules (I love the Warmaster activation system) nearly unplayable for me. So I come to you TMP to try and help me learn to like them.

1.) Give me some rationale for the "multiple units ganging up on a lesser unit to knock it out" gameplay. I've know it's a platoon based game, but even then, shouldn't one platoon of M1A1s be able to knock out 1 platoon of T-72s in short order?

OR

2.) Are there any house rules that alleviate this issue? Just keeping track of hits across turns might work. Or perhaps adding a "death roll" where if you take more than half your hits in one attack, you roll a save and if you fail the unit is eliminated? I'd probably have the save value degrade for each roll you make too.

Any thoughts?

I had the same problem as you, but have come to accept the anomaly from a holistic perspective of how the rules work administering the Battalion or Brigade scale overall…

House rules? whilst I tried to get my group to accept reducing the 'attacks' and 'hits' on the stat lines a little, they weren't having a bar of it….Apparently any ruleset that needs houserules is an Abomination unto Nuggan, fit only to be burnt in the purifying fires of hades…

More constructively, can I recommend you jump on the Pendraken forum and tell them all about it there – they have taken over both BKC and CWC and are currently asking for feedback on BKC, which has a very similar structure, so you input would be valuable. And of course in time CWC should benefit from any improvements.

I've played variants where you just track the hits, and units die of attrition.

My group hate it more because of the C3 systems and the possibility of doing nothing in a turn, but for those players how prefer to be a little more in control, an easy fix is just to allow one automatic action and then have the rest as random (possibly reduce the C3 scores by one to compensate).

Remember the scale effect. One or more models may represent platoons firing on another platoon. Most of the 'hits' will be suppression. So yes, it is realistic that one model of M1A1 wont knock out an entire platoon of T72 in a game turn. What actually happens in game is that units are suppressed, fire and movement becomes impossible, and the next turn, you find an alternative defile, or have regrouped to cover.

As for command, there are a million examples of units not moving when ordered, or misinterpreting orders. Of a tank getting stuck in a narrow lane, or bogged, platoon leaders misreading maps, radio nets going off-line, comms jamming, or just the local commander thinking they know better.

If anyone thinks all units should get to move automatically at least once, then they have an incredibly optimistic view of warfare. I refer them to Clausewitzian 'friction' – which in many ways is still the same.

I enjoy the rules, but had the same issue with hit removal. The simple solution is to not remove hits at the end of the turn. That speeds up play considerably and makes players think twice before doing something. Units get chewed up just like in real life. There is some discussion on the Pendraken forum about having the ability to roll off all but the last hit.

I have also used Martin's suggestion in convention games or for new players.

same issue. thinking about no hit removals. but in my game all units represent half platoon. a squad or 2 – 3 vehicles. i like this scale. it allows some of the unique weapons in play.

"If anyone thinks all units should get to move automatically at least once, then they have an incredibly optimistic view of warfare. I refer them to Clausewitzian 'friction' – which in many ways is still the same."

That is no doubt correct, but when gaming time is limited, mechanisms which produce a 'do nothing' result for major formations don't go down very well here, particularly in a multi-player, time limited game. They are very happy with it for sub-units though, it is just a question of proportionality.

Increasingly I have designed mechanisms where 'something' happens, but often not very much:) Know your audience and all that.

I thinking of adapting a sort of Hail Caesar/Black Powder approach to BKC and CWC damage issue. Maybe retain hits up to their given threshold, after that the units must make a save (with extra wounds a negative modifier) to stay in the game. Success, drop only the excess wounds, failure retreat a move or two or simply remove the unit all together. Also if they accumulate double their wound threshold on a single turn, they automatically are removed.

Now that sounds like a plan…

Yes, that is much more in line with the damage model in CDII.

The nice thing about wargames rules is that you can change to suit your own preferences;)

My gang like saving throws, so I will typically introduce saving throws (maybe modified for quality) but then double the basic damage chance, so it all comes out in the wash…

To the OP:
I'm afraid I can't help you like it. I came to the same conclusions as you, and also some of the other comments about "do nothing" turns…

I'll play it if others are playing, but there are a few things that don't seem "right" even for high level games.

As others have mentioned above, we're currently working on the BKC rules ready for a reprint in January hopefully, and then we'll be turning our attention to CWC. If anyone has any suggestions or feedback on either set, we've got a new BKC section on our forum here: link

Thanks for all the feedback. I'm gonna try a few more solo games, focusing primarily on infantry and AFV combat, assaulting a farmhouse or crossroads, stuff like that. Everything I've read says it's great doing combined arms/infantry heavy action, so hopefully I end up liking it.

After that, if I like that aspect I may just use it for that and stick to FFT3 for Armor heavy games, or try adding a house rule or two to make tank warfare more deadly.

I have similar issues with CWC and decided to just stick with FFOT in the end. I've played quite a few infantry heavy/armour light games and they work well.

Yep, I agree. I think FFT does both infantry and armour heavy actions better than CWC…