"How best to model an ECW army on the table?" Topic

I must admit to being confused. On one hand we see lovely mixed pike and shot units with the pike nicely in the middle and shot on the end. Within this some say the shot should be as deep as the pike and some model the shot half as deep.
Then there is the commanded shot with purely pike blocks behind school. I have seen this in games etc and some argue that especially later in the Wars the pike was used as the mop up after the shot went forward in battalion like units and shot each other up. Too me that seems like a cavalrymans dream all that undefended shot to run over.
So yes i am confused. Can anyone enlighten me?

One small piece of the puzzle: Generally those "undefended shot" were protected by their own cavalry.

Okay that makes sense.

I think there was a mix of most options. Certainly the combined pike and shot units were used when necessary, but the shot and pike on their own was also used. Depended on the situation.

Field Marshal,

Obviously some rules need specific numbers of troops per stand . . . while some others just count the stands (not being specific about number of figures).

If your rules are of the latter type, I would urge you to consider doing what I did . . . and base your figures with the "pike" being in closer formation than the shot . . . since to my way of thinking, while the pike needed to be 'close order' the shot by necessity (think of the burning matches for their matchlocks) would be in a more 'open' order.

Note above to see how I have based my figures for Sir Lewis Dyve's regiment of foote.

Supposedly there should be four figures per stand . . . but I have instead used five pikes per stand (positioned like the five-spot on a d6); and only three staggered figures of shot. The whole unit looks right to me . . . it is almost the same number of troops, but looks better to my eye.

-- Jeff

Oh, one more thing . . . from looking at lots of units, it is clear to me that a unit's flags look better in the back row of pikes than in the front row of pikes.

The latter tend to block the view of pikes, while those in the rear sort of accentuate the pikes by giving them a backdrop.

-- Jeff

One reason why the muskets were in a more open order was that they fired by file. After a musketeer had fired he turned back to the end of his file to reload, moving between files -hence the more open order. The files were six men deep.

Later in the war fire by salvee (i.e. by two or three ranks) became more common.

The 'commanded musketeers' you sometimes hear of placed between bodies or horse were likely to have been troops of dragoons attached to the cavalry regiments. Again, early war.

Most early war dragoon 'regiments' were likely only to have been in reality a few troops of dragoons (see, for example, the composition of Newcastle's Northern Royalist army) rather than a full blown later regiment like Frazer's.

I would say "best" is whatever works best for which ever rule set you want to play. FOG-R for example has specific basing requirements. Another consideration is the pike to shot ratio. Most common ratios were 1:1, 2:1, 3:2 and all shot. If getting the ratios right is important, you might want to try 12 small bases. If you are not using a system with base removal or figure count is not important then three large bases so you can model the three basic formations, line, column and hedgehog. "Best" is really whatever makes you happy.

One consideration with the ECW is that the proportion of cavalry is quite high, at least by napoleonic standards. Edge hill was approx 3 to1
Nearby 1 to 1

You could possibly be opening up a can of worms with this one here…

Pike and shot ranked the same. The deep pike formations of the previous century had disappeared.

Pike and shot also maintained the same interval between files. Introductory fire (whereby each musketeer retired between the files of the body) was replaced by the much more practical method of marching the entire rank to the rear between the intervals between companies/divisions. Pikemen needed to keep a decent gap between each other in order to handle their pikes. As a result you will find both types at 'order' – approximately three feet between files.

Commanded shot were drawn off for specific purposes at specific times and their use was not standard practice. For the vast majority of the time, ECW foot formed up as single bodies of mixed pike and shot.

I'd suggest that you have a look at this thread where a lot of the issues are discussed:

TMP link

Thanks guys…gives me more of an idea…thanks for the link Pete…the info on your site is great….i still hae to paint up the boer war stuff i bought from you last year!