"British army ranks explained" Topic

Borrowed from elsewhere but gives a good feel for British naming practice's.

Army ranks – know your oppos

"The rank system is really quite simple." You see, all people in the Army are soldiers, all privates are soldiers, but not all soldiers are privates. Some are officers who are commissioned, but some are officers who are not commissioned. Obviously if every private was called ‘Private' it would be confusing, so some privates are called things like trooper, driver, gunner, craftsmen, sapper or signaller. Not all of the drivers actually drive because some of them cook, but we don't call them cooks. For that matter, not all drivers are called drivers – some of them are privates or gunners. Gunners, as I'm sure you know, are the blokes that fire guns, unless of course they are drivers or signallers in which case we call them gunners rather than drivers or signallers just to make it clearer. All gunners belong to the Artillery, except that in the Infantry we have gunners who are called privates because they fire a different sort of gun, for the same reason we call our drivers and signallers private as well. A mechanical battalion has drivers, crew commanders and sigs, but are still soldiers. Some Infantry units have soldiers who are musicians that are still soldiers, but referred to as ‘Pipes and Drums' meaning they are soldiers who play bagpipes and drums. Not the hard rocking AC/DC-type drums, more the side slug drums for marching on parade, and cat-squealing pipes like in Scotland, not peace pipes or plumbing needs. But they can also do the hard rocking AC/DC stuff if needed at dining-in nights at the Officers' and Sergeants' Mess, which isn't really messy, except after Mess footy, which is another story. So yes, a piper, drummer or bugler is still an Infantry soldier who plays music, but isn't band corps, otherwise that soldier would in fact be a musician, who is still a soldier but non-combatant. Whereas pipers, drummers and buglers are still combatant soldiers who are Infantry Corps that play music for the battalion, but aren't musicians. Pipers, drummers and buglers are also referred to as ‘stretcher bearers' which can confuse some to thinking they're medics, which is understandable seeing as they wear the red cross brassard and perform first aid, casualty recovery and work with the medics, who are also soldiers. A Lance Corporal is called Corporal unless he is a Lance Bombardier then we call him Bombardier to distinguish him from a full bombardier, who is just like a corporal. All other ranks are called by their rank for the sake of simplicity except that staff sergeants are called Staff, but they are not on the staff, some warrant officers, who are not officers, are called Sergeant Major although they are not sergeants or majors. Some warrant officers are called Mister which is the same thing that we call some officers but they are not warrant officers. A lieutenant is also called Mister because they are subalterns, but we always write their rank as Lieutenant or Second Lieutenant, and second comes before first. When we talk about groups of soldiers there obviously has to be clear distinction. We call them officers and soldiers although we know that officers are soldiers too. Sometimes we talk about officers and other ranks which is the same as calling them soldiers. I guess it is easiest when we talk about rank and file which is all the troops on parade except the officers and some of the NCOs – and a few of the privates – and the term is used whether everyone is on parade or not.
A large unit is called a battalion, unless it is a regiment, but sometimes a regiment is much bigger than a battalion and then it has nothing to do with the other sort of regiment. Sub-units are called companies unless they are squadrons or troops or batteries for that matter. That is not radio batteries and don't confuse this type of troop with the type who are soldiers but not officers. Mostly the Army is divided into corps as well as units, not the sort of corps which is a couple of divisions but the sort which tells you straight away what trade each man performs, whether he is a tradesmen or not. The Infantry Corps has all the infantrymen for example and the Artillery Corps has all the gunners. Both these corps also has signallers and drivers except those who are in the Signals or Transport Corps. In fact the Signals Corps is not a service at all because it is an arm. Arms do all the fighting, although Signals don't have to fight too much, rather like the Engineers who are also an arm but they don't fight too much either So you see, it's really quite simple."

Lol, that's great.

Very drole.

Nice to have a chuckle and smile on a rainy Monday morning at work.

Jim

The sounds about, right but they missed Officers Commanding, as opposed to Commanding Officers.

I was with you all the way. Very good

OK, now explain the Navy. I dare you!

Written, apparently, so the Upperclass British Twit (thanks, Monty Python) can understand the military that he and his fellow twits will command.
I saw "Blackadder Goes Forth", so I understand how the Upper Crust is preferred for officer material. Great documentary, that.

I saw "Blackadder Goes Forth", so I understand how the Upper Crust is preferred for officer material. Great documentary, that.

"Blackadder Goes Forth", a great documentary???

That's a good one!!

You also forgot "Officer on parade" from the movie Zulu.

Jim

"It must be Thursday. I never could get the hang of Thursdays…"

Mostly the Army is divided into corps as well as units, not the sort of corps which is a couple of divisions but the sort which tells you straight away what trade each man performs, whether he is a tradesmen or not. The Infantry Corps has all the infantrymen for example and the Artillery Corps has all the gunners.

However, there is also the King's Royal Rifle Corps, which is not a corps but a regiment – though not that other kind of regiment. Since it is a regiment, it will actually organise its members into battalions when they go to war. Privates in this regiment were called Riflemen, regardless of how they were armed, in order to distinguish them from all of the privates armed with rifles coming from the other kinds of infantry regiments.

If you happen to visit battalion headquarters, you might meet the Regimental Sergeant Major (RSM), a warrant officer that every battalion has. However, being called warrant officer does not mean that there is a warrant on him. And he is not called Battalion Sergeant Major since that could be confusing, as abbreviation BSM stands for Battery Sergeant Major – who is also a warrant officer.

When battalions go to war, they are grouped together into brigades, commanded by a Brigadier, who is the Brigade Commander. Brigade could also consist of a number of regiments, or even a mixture of battalions and regiments, as was the case with WWII armoured brigades. However, special mention has to be made of the Rifle Brigade, which is not actually a brigade but a regiment – but it is called a brigade in order to avoid confusion as to which sort of regiment it is.

Brigades can be grouped together into divisions. The reason they are called divisions is because they are divided into brigades. A division is commanded by the General Officer Commanding, who typically has the rank of Major General. He is called a General Officer because he has received very special training to enable him to effectively command large formations on the field.

It is also important to remember that the proper name of the British Army is exactly that, and not the Royal British Army. That is because the British Army does not answer directly to the monarch, but instead to the parliament. This sets it apart from the Royal Navy and Royal Air Force, which do not answer directly to the monarch, but instead to the parliament. However, individual regiments can still be royal, such as the King's Own Royal Regiment, which is not owned by the king, or the Royal Fusiliers. To avoid confusion, the privates who serve in Royal Fusiliers are simply known as fusiliers, rather than privates.

It is all wonderfully simple and logical, isn't it?

Wonderful read on a Monday morning.

Agreed now explain the Royal Navy!

OK, now explain lieutenant vs. leftenant?

Brigadier
Major General
Lieutenant General

Why because it used to be
Brigadier
Sergeant Major General
Lieutenant General

"Officer on Parade" is a word of command to indicate to the soldiery that respects are made to the officer present and not the one issuing the order.

Ranks and Appointments are also different things.

A RSM is a Warrant Officer Class 1 who is appointed as the Regimental Sergeant Major. Other Warrant Officer Class 2 in the Battalion (or Regiment) could be SSM/CSM/BSM/RQMS/RSWO

A Yeoman of Signals is an appointment and could be a Staff Sergeant, a Warrant Officer Class 2 or a Warrant Officer Class 1
Gunners have SMIS, SMIG, Master Gunner
REME have Artificer and AQMS

Dont even start thinking about Lance Sergeants and Corporals of the Horse

On and on and on

OK, now explain lieutenant vs. leftenant?

Oh, that's easy. "leftenant" is how you pronounce the word "lieutenant".

Obviously the reason a Major General is junior to a Lieutenant General is because it derived from the term 'Serjeant-Major General', as a Serjeant-Major is junior to a Lieutenant. They are both junior to Generals of course. Simples! Historically Major Generals were in command of Brigades, unless they were commanded by Brigadiers, of course, who are not quite Generals, except insofar as they are listed as 'General Officers'. Not to be confused with an officer of the General Service Corps, of course, who tend to be quite low ranking as they are usually awaiting attachment to an appropriate Arm of Service. Unless they are Gentlemen from certain departments of the Foreign Office or Home Office, who are assuming the Dress and Appointments of the Army in pursuit of their investigations…in which case they may be assigned slightly senior ranks, but will exert considerable authority…

The main thing to remember about the Navy is that whilst all naval men are seamen, only some are rated Seamen. Except the Officers, who are all deemed men of the sea, no matter what their specialisation. Also don't be confused by the Swimmer of the Watch. He is not a swimmer, and he is not on watch. He is there ready to be able to jump buoys, in which role he will be assisted by the Buoy-Jumpers, who are on watch, but obviously won't be jumping any buoys, they just hold the guideline for the SOTW. Now don't be surprised if the Officer of the Day is not an Officer, and that his main duties don't start until the evening. If you need something done, go and find the Officer of the Watch, who is always an Officer, who must remain calm and detached and keep the ship safe at all times – you can tell that by the way everyone is shouting at him and the fact that he is running around in circles screaming into 3 telephones and 2 radio sets. Above all don't take it amiss that the Principal Warfare Officer is in fact not the principal warfare officer, but actually third in command behind the Captain and XO who are both more senior Warfare branch officers. Although the XO is the second in command, he is of course also the First Lieutenant, although obviously on an escort sized ship he is likely a Lieutenant Commander. Now Ranks and Rates are completely straightforward; Rates are naval terms for ranks, but only Officers have Ranks. Other Ranks are Rates you see – simples! Now a word of warning – if you are invited somewhere for the Morning Watch, politely decline – its actually the middle of the night! The best time for a social event is the Last Dog watch, which starts at 1800. If convivial, you may be asked to stay through to the First Watch, but don't be alarmed, this is not an invitation to an all-nighter, the First Watch is of course the last watch of the day. Lastly, some brief points about terms. Never refer to the sea or the ocean as such, you are likely to attract the attention of the Navigator, who is invariably a crashing bore, and can drone on for hours about wether the patch of water you are floating in or on is properly termed the Pacific, the Tasman Sea, or the Bass Strait. Seriously, he can go on for hours… Call it the blue, the ulu, the oggin, the old grey widowmaker, even the briny if you must. In similar vein the Navy is called The Mob, The Andrew, or the Grey Funnel Line…

I feel a Gilbert and Sullivan song coming on…

Next week – The Rules of Cricket.

If you need something done, go and find the Officer of the Watch, who is always an Officer, who must remain calm and detached and keep the ship safe at all times – you can tell that by the way everyone is shouting at him and the fact that he is running around in circles screaming into 3 telephones and 2 radio sets.

Hahahahaha!!!!!

So true.

Well, for starters, cricket doesn't have any rules. It has LAWS

NFWS – then there's the Bosun's and chief Bosun, who are seaman or ratings, from ordinary seaman to chief petty officer. Petty officers are not commissioned officers but ratings or senior other ranks. However they far from petty. Well, some can be. I've also met some able seaman who were far from able. A leading seaman is also a killick. Also if a seaman wants to show a lady the ship's golden rivet, she should wary.

You guys are killin me! Some funny stuff there.

And then there's the RAF – with a rank system so byzantine that all their officers wear bar codes.

Do they still have all the fun of regimental rank vs army rank, and local rank?

Depends on whether it's ty/loc/acting-unpaid….or maybe not.

I'm ex-RAF but had to work with various British Armoured troops when later working as a Scientist.

It got really confusing when talking to a 'Corporal-of-Horse' who wasn't a Corporal but actually equivalent to a senior Sergeant. Apparently it was something to do with the fact that the founder of his Regiment was some Royalty who didn't want any of the ranks in their Regiment to be classed as 'servants', as the term 'Sergeant' means 'servant' in Latin, or some other long-since-dead language. So they made up their own rank structure just for that Regiment.

Then there's the difference between a Sergeant and a Serjeant…

You 'Yanks' have it so much easier. We Brits have to live with this cr@p…

Then there's the difference between a Sergeant and a Serjeant…

Another easy one. "Serjeant" is simply an archaic form of "Sergeant".

It got really confusing when talking to a 'Corporal-of-Horse' who wasn't a Corporal but actually equivalent to a senior Sergeant. Apparently it was something to do with the fact that the founder of his Regiment was some Royalty who didn't want any of the ranks in their Regiment to be classed as 'servants', as the term 'Sergeant' means 'servant' in Latin, or some other long-since-dead language. So they made up their own rank structure just for that Regiment.

Actually, the Corporal-of-Horse rank applies to all of the household cavalry regiments.

Notice that the household cavalry regiments do not belong to the cavalry corps, but form a corps of their own. Together with the foot guard regiments they form the household division, which differs from ordinary division by not consisting of brigades. In order to avoid confusion, the foot guard regiments are not called household infantry.

Although the XO is the second in command, he is of course also the First Lieutenant, although obviously on an escort sized ship he is likely a Lieutenant Commander.

Unless the XO is a Commander, in which case there is also a First Lieutenant, known as Number One or the Jimmy, or that *&^%*!

A doggie does not have four legs but is a rating who accompanies the CO or XO and is available as a messenger.

NCO ranks are easy to understand. Lance Corporals and Corporals are all called Corporal. Unless they're Gunners in which case they're called Bombardier. Sergeants are always called Sergeant (never Sarge) but if they're Riflemen it's spelled Serjeant. Staff Sergeants are always addressed as Staff unless they're infanteers in which case their rank is Colour Sergeant and they're addressed as Colour. Warrant Officers are always addressed as Sir by those junior to them, although they're not officers, and as Sergeant Major or Mister by those senior to them. And remember, a Lance Sergeant is actually a Corporal and a Corporal of Horse is a Sergeant. Simple really!

So simple it makes you wonder how there could ever be any confusion in then first place…as any colonel-in-chief (generally a civilian really) would tell you.

YouTube link

So simple it makes you wonder how there could ever be any confusion in then first place…as any colonel-in-chief (generally a civilian really) would tell you.

I am certain that even any public schoolboy could have told you that – after all, they were often the ones who would end up with high ranks in the officer corps.

(For the uninformed, public schoolboy is simply a boy who attends a public school – which are run by private organisations.)

So, who in the cavalry takes care of the horse apples? Are they for the mounts themselves or do the men get their share, too? One would think it would stretch the rations a bit, now wouldn't it?

And I should think that the Provost became a lot more involved and numerous taking up the maintenance of military law and order when officers lost their Batmen.

Batting service is still is part of terms and conditions. Tea in the morning and one pair of boots and one shirt ironed

When I got commissioned I passed on the early morning cuppa – too damn early to be civil to someone!