"In Praise of 6mm French Revolution Manufacturers" Topic

Received my French from Baccus and Adler. I cannot write enough words in praise of these figures.

Baccus had been hit or miss with me, but the little guys in hats are easily their best sculpts among the French IMHO. Right up there with their Prussian Reserve and Landwehr which are my favorite sculpts from this manufacturer. Very clean, very sturdy. Belting and cuffs are wide enough to easily paint.

I did not know what to expect when I ordered my infantry from Adler. No pics to be found. I was very pleasantly surprised. Lovely figures. Very expressive faces, clean with a minimum of equipment clutter so the uniform colors can come through. Well proportioned and slightly rounder and thicker than some of the other lines. Remind me of Essex 15mm French Napoleonics or Pendraken 10mm. Yes, they are that good. 15mm quality at 6mm scale and prices is impossible to resist.

Incredibly thankful to have two great lines to choose from.

Glad you had a good experience, Joe! I bought my first Adler's last year to supplement my Baccus 1809 Bavarian's and was nervous as well, not being able to see pictures, Man, they are beautiful sculpts!

Glad you like the figures. Pictures are a constant subject of discussion. I do kinda work on the principal that there are enough pics on the website to show the quality, a close up pic of every single code is just not a feasible project in terms of time and effort required. It would be literally thousands of figures to be painted and photographed.
Its the downside of a designer led outfit Im afraid I dont have a bunch of people around to do this sort of thing. The time taken to do pics comes out of design time and I know where Id rather be! lol
Its a constant source of amazement and disappointment that the early period Napoleonics are such a dismally poor seller.
I have a whole batch of early French additions and casquet Austrians hanging around but its frankly not cost viable to put them in production at the moment.
L

Leon,

I don't know why the period is such a poor seller.
Army sizes are manageable. 20,000 to 60,000 troops on a side. Two entirely different styles of warfare. The allies wanting to fight pitched battles and the French columns engaging the enemy like heat-seeking missiles as soon as they appear.

Besides, in what other period can you march your generals straight to the firing squad after a defeat or send you overzealous troops to the colonies to die of disease?

Joe, I suppose that information isn't widely available and British troops only lost ( So no peninsular or waterloo glory) and no figures available for a lot of armies

Early french additions hmmm, how many do we have to order to go into production??

Joe Rocket, Yes it baffles me too.
The armies are far more interesting as are the battles, less artillery so killing zones that much smaller and far more capable cavalry as a result.

Duc de Limbourg, certainly less available without making a little more effort to dig around a bit but its all there. Maybe 'modern' wargamers' have an aversion to the research side of the hobby? lol

Sparta, most of the French ones are stuff that no ones needs lots off ( Horse artillery in milirton for instance)
I'm getting to the end of a marathon re doing production moulds session so I may remould the early French in helmet though only the march pose.
L

Personally the early french in Tarleton helmets with the side plumes are the best looking and smartest uniforms around. I would definitely buy a few regiments worth of frenchies who could double as some emigres troops too. Also the early austrians are great looking as well.

Btw I can't remember the code but the early french grenadies marching in bicorne with horsehair plumes are my favorite infantry. So much character and will make up my 48 ligne for 1805-1807 whenever I do Davout's 3rd Corps. Supposedly had the largest amount of veterans who had fought in the revolution and still held on to parts of their old uniforms.

Leon, you could put the photographs of miniatures also not painted …
If you want to use images instead of painted miniatures you can use the images of my blog. They nearly all Adler and there are hundreds of images ….

On the right of the blog, there are labels of nations, choose the ones you want.
Hello
Marco
napoleon6mm.blogspot.it

I think the early period is a poor seller for a couple of reasons. The first is the obvious one, few if any manufactures have a complete line that fully covers the period. If you don't have a complete line a lot of people won't bother to buy what limited stuff you do have. I know I won't and most of my friends feel the same way.

The second is most people simply don't want to build two French armies, two Austrian armies, two Prussian armies, etc. for two periods that are side by side. We had that very discussion when we first started in 6mm. Bicorns or shakos? We didn't really see it as two separate periods at the time. Shakos seemed to be the more popular period and there were complete lines, so we went with those. We simply use the same figures for both periods, nobody really cares that the uniforms/hats are wrong. It's all about playing a game in 6mm, nothing else really matters.

Even today with some 30,000 6mm Napoleonics I have very few with early uniforms.

Glen,

I understand your point, but assuming that most are going to avoid France's glory period in Central Europe when Russia stood alone (and you don't see many early Russians in shako rather than kiwer) then you're building armies just for 1813-15. If you're going to build an Austrian army, why not build it for the early period through 1809? Very similar circumstances to British armies. You build for Spain and cover Waterloo when you have to. The Austrian army doesn't make an appearance until Leipzig and then makes a victory lap of France in 1814 so you're building an Austrian army for one major battle.

Besides, Arch Duke Johann (Johnny) is 18 years old and in command of an army during the Rev period. What could go wrong?

Nope cant say, I should know better by now than to engage really.
L

Come now, Leon. Share. It's not that kind of crowd. Everyone's here for fun.

I'm not much of a stickler for uniforms, to be honest. My Brits are all 1815 because I fancy that uniform and my Spanish are looking fly in their white coats and hats. But you have to draw the line somewhere and French should be in hats for the Rev period. I'd really like some in Blancs in tarelton to go with the conscripts in bleu

Hello Joe!

I think some people don't really separate the periods. They see it all as Napoleonics, that simply contains uniform changes at different points of time, and some don't even know that or really care. When it comes down to selecting the figures they then generally choose the ones that have a complete line. Why pick a period that is not fully supported? They do sometimes have a favourite period which more often then not is Waterloo, then perhaps the peninsula and the Austrian wars. These are all shakos of various types and helmets, not caps and bicorns. The fellows in our club that painted the Russians clearly thought the shako was the better choice for most periods. Were they right, it doesn't matter does it.

I know when we made our choices we went with helmets and shakos for Austrians and shakos for everybody else. We did this partly because those figures were fully supported and we never did an in-depth analysis of who wore exactly what at each battle. In fact some of that is still hard to dig up.

We play the entire period regardless if they are in the proper uniforms or hats. That's not an obstacle for us to play the period. Even with our large collection of figures were still short of figures for some countries and often use Russians for Prussians and Austrians for Spanish etc.

I think the majority of buyers for the revolutionary period are those who pretty much want to do it with all the proper uniforms. I don't think their as casual about the details as those who are into other parts of the period.

I just think that the entire period is splintered up a little too much, and the early period draws the short straw when most people come a shopping for their figures. Most people have to make choices as it's very difficult to cover the entire period. Like I said, I have 30,000 figures for this period and very few have early uniforms. It's not because I don't like them, because I do. For me it's simply a matter of choices, time, expense etc.

Best regards,

Glenn

Ah … it seems every year or so a thread like this gets going and I click on it, hoping it's Christmas Day and Leon will present us with those tantalizing Austrians! ;)

Don't mind Glenn – it's really for the best. He seems to love gaming with his 6mm figures (on 60x30mm bases!) in his way so much that he shows up and takes a contentious stand on any issue that his Most Venerable 6mm Club In The World doesn't agree with. I've started to become curious as to why nobody else in this club ever appears …

At any rate, if one can accuse Napoleonic gamers of anything, it wouldn't be indifference to uniform details! While I'm sure the early period isn't as big a draw as the Imperial period – and we do understand the economic concerns that you have to consider – I would just take the continuing interest as a positive sign of support for your line. If you make 'em, we'll buy 'em. Heck, there might even be a few odd fellows like myself for whom the early period is a draw to collect the entire period with your figures.

Cheers,

Christopher

Ah…..Don't mind Christopher. As you can all see he has only one intention here. To cause trouble. He seems to love trying to stir things up even when there is nothing to stir. He's even now said that there is a contentious issue here and that I don't agree with it. Obviously I missed all of that.

At one time most of the membership was here. Most of them are now long gone because they could no longer tolerate people like Christopher. It's a shame that the Napoleonic forum seems to attract people like that.

When I had GFI up and running, we brought out the Fr-Rev range in 15mm. The Steve's over at 19th Century advised not to because the sales just weren't there. They were right!

While the 15mm Minifigs 1795-1805 range of nations that Dave Higgs sculpted are among his best (IMHO), they just did not sell despite the period being so interesting. I have always felt the real reason is that there are too few, READILY AVAILABLE books and specifically written, popular rules sets on the subject to stur up interest.

(EDIT: These figures are in the 15mm Minifigs Napoleonic Ranges that Caliver now sells- I don't believe they are listed as a separate range by themselves, still.)

In addition to single packs, we released ours in named Division packs with historically uniformed mixes for the different units, based upon research done by Todd Fisher to match his "Revolution and Empire" rules. Despite all this work, we sold less that 6 total Division packs in about 4 years.

Had more research been available to the general market, I feel more customers would have appreciated the effort put into the offerings. Without the corresponding research and period specific rules to specifically stand alone from the later Napoleonic era rules, the project was really still born from birth. The Steve's were right!

Tom

Joe Rocket,
Sorry there are certain things as a business owner that its just not politic for me to say in public forums.
From now on I'm going to stick to purely product announcements and stay out of the boards. There are just too many agendas and less than thoughtful comments, rehashing old arguments and points that 2 mins of thinking about would have sorted.
L

Leon

I think it is great that a manufacturer of our much loved miniatures and scale does engage with the members here. However, everyone will understand completely if you decide to just post when you have news of new ranges/miniatures etc. And I certainly don't think anyone should expect you to reply to every post, but I am sure it is really appreciated when you do.

Yes, what Gazzola said, and thanks for the great work past present and future!

"I think the early period is a poor seller for a couple of reasons. "

Mostly masochistic approach to avoid excellent armies, nice uniforms, interesting historical characters.

Fortunatly some interesting ranges do exist now, Sho Bokis early Revolutionary Austrian cavalry did sell well compared to his later Imperial stuff.

Alan Perry doing marvellous figures for the Egyptian campaign, so there is some very tasty choice there.

Perhaps you should try it as a kick starter project? people commit to buying before you produce?

French,Prussians and Austrians are available in 15mm from Lancashire Games and Chariot.

As for using figures regardless of the uniforms, that is just Imagination gaming isn't it?

Chad,

Let's not get silly. No one's putting Space Marines on the table. But no one's going to get wound up if figures have or do not have a canteen or the right canteen at 6mm. Hat or shako, does it really matter?

The uniform debate is interesting, and I for one would never castigate anyone for using figures with teh wrong head gear.

I use bigger figures than you 6mm guys, but I think similar econcomics apply. I use 1/72 plastic, and am gradually building up a second period, the bicorne period, to match my shako period. Why, because they look so cool and different. SO I will do two styles – what I think of as 1805-7, and 1813-15. But even in those periods, there are problems that I have chosen to accept and ignore – for example, I like my Guard artillery to be in bearskins, so I will not be raising any in shako. I like my Polish Lancers to be that – lancers, so again, I am not raising teh light horse version first.

So in 6mm, I am surprised that more people don't try both styles. The cost of two armies is not prohibitive, and they are distinctly different. SO I will continue to frequent this board periodically in the hope of seeing some nice "early war" bicornes etc.

And please, no fighting – no one really enjoys seeing nasty comments about other people on these threads.

I am planning to move into Revolutionary wars stuff at some point next year (currently taking a break from Napoleonic/Revolutionary Wars after a lot of effort for the last big bicentennial this year), and recently bought a load of Sho boki's early Austrian infantry as a start.

I am usually fairly broad-minded about 'morphing' figures in 6mm and probably most troops types can be covered one way or another with a bit of squinting, but one of the things that had previously held me back from the early stuff was the lack of Austrians with the distinctive kaskett head gear. Now I've acquired some it has inspired me to start. I'm afraid I just wouldn't be able to bring myself to use shako headed troops for the early stuff! Particularly as the earlier armies are generally that much smaller than the later ones, so in theory cheaper to do.

It is a shame the early stuff does not get so much coverage but I can see why economics (both from the purchaser's and manufacturer's sides!) has to be taken into account.

Wow! A lot has changed since I was last here! A new 6mm page and a vigorous discussion on French Revolutionary War figures – that's awesome.

Well then.. without further ado.. my contribution.

2nd Battalion of the 68th form in line to meet an assault of Austrians after losing control of a nearby Belgian town.

A close-up of the grenadier company and battalion drums.

The Austrian assault: 1st and 2nd battalions attacking along a narrow front – each 1 company wide.

A supporting squadron of dragoons:

O'Donnel Freikorp elements push a French Chasseur battalion out of the burning village.

The French await glory or death!

3rd Battalion Austrian fusiliers forms line.

All figures are conversions of Adler 6mm miniatures.

Cheers!
Beeker

Very nice! So envious. One day that stuff will get back into production.

Hi Joe – back in production? I don't follow. They are all in production. All figures are conversions of Adler figures presently available from Leon. See my previous posts for quick-and-dirty DIY.

Happy conversions!
Beeker

Oh.. the fellows marching in relief are the 3rd battalion de reserve.. just in case anyone's keeping track.

:)