"TO&E for Late 1950s and 1960s Panzergrenadiers?" Topic

I've got the basic info on the Bundeswehr Panzergrenadier battalions, companies, and platoons down, but would like additional info at the squad and platoon levels, for the numbers and breakdowns of troops and weapons in the HS-30 IFVs (aka Spz 12-3).

There are 16 HS-30s per company. 1 in the HQ, and then three platoons of five vehicles each. 4 have 20mm cannons, and 1 has a 106mm recoilless rifle.

Three PzGren. companies per battalion, plus other support vehicles.

Supposedly, the HS-30s have a crew of 3, plus 5 passengers.

So, does that mean that each platoon really consists of 2 x 10 man squads, plus the RR on the 5th vehicle for antitank support?

If so, I presume perhaps 1 x MG3 in every other infantry vehicle (not including the one with the RR), and perhaps a bazooka, and/or RPG, like the PzFaust 44 in the others?

Or, would each 5 man fireteam include a MG3, assistant, and 3 x riflemen. Perhaps pulling out the 3.5" bazooka, or other RPGs, as needed?

Also, I'm interested in the numbers of passengers and what weapons they'd carry in the squads/platoons, for the M113 units as well, before they got the Marder, if anyone has info for that, for the 1960s and 1970s.

Hey Mako,

I'm also interested in this … I plan on gaming a Cold War gone hot set in 1965. Did you find organization details for the Panzer Brigades. I guess the main battle tank for the German's was the M47 at this time.

I wonder if Micromark Army Lists would cover this?

Mark

One thing to take account of the West Germans reorganised every 2(?) years and TOE's were in flux.

Actually, the M41s and M47s started getting retired in about 1965, though some may have soldiered on until the early 1970s, since changing out the units took time, and older vehicles were passed down to the reserve units.

The Leopards start getting introduced in 1965, as well as the JagdPanzer Kanones.

17 vehicles to a company, for the tank units, 2 in the HQ, and 3 x platoons of 5, like in the early Cold War US companies.

M48A2Cs with 90mms, and then around the late 1970s, IIRC, they got upgraded to the 105mms, with the M48A2GA2 variant.

Okay, so I found a few more "hints" in the TO&E book I have, listed for 1968.

It lists five vehicles for the platoon, and doesn't mention the recoilless rifle for one of the vehicles. Any chance it is the HQ vehicle?

It does list the platoon HQ vehicle as having one command group, and a LMG.

For the four other vehicles, the equipment/troops list is as follows: rifle group, LMG, and MAW (the latter being the Panzerfaust 44 – West German equivalent of the RPG-7).

Now, I know the LMGs are MG3s, which are usually a two-man team. Add one guy with the PzFst 44, and that means there are only two others in the squad with rifles.

Anyone know if the guy with the PzFst 44 would also carry a rifle?

Presumably, the MG3 assistant might carry a G3 rifle as well, but most likely that'd only be useful while advancing, since most likely he's helping the MG3 gunner load, when firing from a bipod. If he's got his hands full with cans of belted ammo, most likely not even then (then again, perhaps they just drape the belts over their shoulders, or keep them in a backpack).

Anyone know now many men are in the platoon, and company HQs for the HS-30 (Spz 12-3) units?

Just in case anyone is interested, especially with the new 1/144th Revell HS-30 coming out, I've seen pics of guys with rifles and Pzf-44s, as well as a guy with just the Pzf-44 and two reload containers on his back.