viper5121 | 14 Oct 2015 11:53 p.m. PST |
Is there some sort of solo variant for Frostgrave? If not, what would be the best way to play it solo? Should I incorporate one of the Two Hour Wargames or Ganesha Games systems? If so, which one? And how exactly would I incorporate it into Frostgrave without losing the basic mechanics of Frostgrave. I still want the game to be Frostgrave, but with enemy A.I. Thanks. |
MajorB | 15 Oct 2015 1:39 a.m. PST |
The same way you would play any other game solo. I have never found a game I cannot play solo. I do not use any of those "solo" mechanisms, but just play each side in turn. |
Green Tiger | 15 Oct 2015 1:44 a.m. PST |
I'm with MajorB – I call it the schizophrenic method. You just have to genuinely want the side you are playing to win. The game mechanics should add enough randomness to keep you guessing… |
Joe5mc | 15 Oct 2015 3:22 a.m. PST |
Some people have taken to playing a warband versus random monsters. You'd have to work at it a bit to get the balance, but it could certainly be done. It's harder to play versus another warband, because an AI has a tough time dealing with spellcasters…although Thaw of the Lich Lord will provide one example. |
Tuudawgs | 15 Oct 2015 5:14 a.m. PST |
I have found Two Hour Wargames "Rally round the King" has a really good system for tactics in medium/large scale games. Avalon Game Company makes a series of solo adventure "Avalon Quests" with different tactics for small groups. And, Dungeon-Bash-v11 has a system for spell casters. This one is a flow chart and is kind of involved but works well. All three are available at RPGNOW Jim |
Pedrobear | 15 Oct 2015 5:28 a.m. PST |
A plug for the system I devised for a solo SOBH campaign: link It combines modular dungeon tiles, an AI system inspired by the D&D dungeon-crawl games, presented on home-printed cards made using free online Magic card generators, which was also used to make the blanks for the deployment of the "monsters". |
Great War Ace | 15 Oct 2015 7:05 a.m. PST |
MajorB has the core of solo gaming IDed: play all sides, each in turn, each as if YOU are that side. I think it might take a "special" sort of mindset. I can do it. It's especially easy if the other side are all zombies, then you don't have to switch sides. Of course, it all gets pretty monotonous and dull after a little while…. |
MajorB | 15 Oct 2015 7:49 a.m. PST |
I don't KNOW as the approaching party whether there is one or not, even though in my role as one of the slovenly malodorous perverts on the other side whether there is or not. So, just "playing that side to win" isn't necessarily straightforward, I didn't say "play that side to win". I did say "play each side in turn". If I had a situation such as you describe, I would decide what information the active side actually had and not allow myself to do anything related to information they did not know. I don't need cards or any other "solo" mechanism, just a modicum of common sense. So if I set up a game where one side is waiting in ambush, and there is no logical reason why the other side should know, then I will move them normally. If the rules allow them to scout then that will help with whether they spot the ambushers before they spring their trap or not. |
Ed the Two Hour Wargames guy | 15 Oct 2015 9:19 a.m. PST |
I didn't say "play that side to win". I did say "play each side in turn". If I had a situation such as you describe, I would decide what information the active side actually had and not allow myself to do anything related to information they did not know. I don't need cards or any other "solo" mechanism, just a modicum of common sense. So basically you make all the decisions from start to finish for both sides. I assume that includes opposing forces, their Mission, and what they will do each turn. I've seen your posts on this before so you've been very consistent. That's why I was a bit confused by this post. TMP link Did you find what you are looking for and how would it be different than what you normally do? |
viper5121 | 15 Oct 2015 9:45 a.m. PST |
Joe5mc's (the designer) post on a warband against monsters (not against another warband) seems like good idea. Can Joe5mc or anyone else elaborate on this? I see that Pedrobear posted about such a system he created, but I want the system to still be Frostgrave as much as possible, not an entirely new system. However, I am not averse to mixing in another system with Frostgrave to achieve proper solo play if that would be best. Any suggestions? Thanks. |
MajorB | 15 Oct 2015 10:30 a.m. PST |
So basically you make all the decisions from start to finish for both sides. I assume that includes opposing forces, their Mission, and what they will do each turn. Yes. As I'm the only player, I'm the only one that can make any decisions. I've seen your posts on this before so you've been very consistent. That's why I was a bit confused by this post.Did you find what you are looking for ? Actually, yes, I did find the rules that I knew I had seen but couldn't remember where. They are in Henry Hyde's "Wargaming Compendium". Essentially at the end of a player's turn, they roll 1D6 for the number of NPCs that can be activated. The player chooses which NPCs to activate and then the opposing player decides where they move. NPCs will not willingly move into the line of fire and there is also a rule that allows the bad guys to use NPCs as a "human shield". As you can see, not specific to a solo gaming context at all, but easily applied in that case. and how would it be different than what you normally do? Not having such a mechanism at all, I have struggled in the past on how to handle NPCs, hence the thread you linked to. I was hoping that someone could jog my memory as to where I'd seen the rules. |
Ed the Two Hour Wargames guy | 15 Oct 2015 10:44 a.m. PST |
Not having such a mechanism at all, I have struggled in the past on how to handle NPCs, hence the thread you linked to. I was hoping that someone could jog my memory as to where I'd seen the rules. . Glad it worked out for you. |
MajorB | 15 Oct 2015 11:02 a.m. PST |
but my point was that you may find yourself in situations where there s a decision to make where insufficient information is available to make an informed decision and insufficient time to play things safely. No real life commander ever has perfect information, so they are faced with these kinds of decisions all the time. So are we as players in a wargame. Do I advance cautiously or hasten because of time constraints? Do I engage in a fire fight or charge into melee? Do I attack frontally or attempt to find a flank? It is just the same in a solo context. You, the player, still have to make those decisions. Ah, you say, but in a solo game you DO have perfect information because you are also playing the other side! I sometimes think of the way I do this as "selective memory loss". I try to put myself in the position of the figure or unit on the table. What information do THEY have? More importantly, what information do they NOT have? I then base my decision on what I will have them do according to their perspective of the situation. It's one of those things that's difficult to describe, but easy to do … |
MajorB | 15 Oct 2015 11:08 a.m. PST |
Glad it worked out for you. Thank you! |
Pedrobear | 15 Oct 2015 6:15 p.m. PST |
viper, While I used SOBH for my solo campaign, the mechanics I used can still be applied to a game like Frostgrave for a warband vs. monsters. If you want to have an AI-controlled enemy warband, it is also possible: the same concept of grouping and logic algorithm applies. First, group your warband in "squads": the wizard and his squad, the apprentice and his squad, and the other "specialist" squads. Give each squad a "mission template". For example, one wizard may like to actively seek out and engage the enemy wizard, while another may prefer hanging back and casting buffing spells. One squad may be thieves with the task to run and grab treasures and then run off, another may be fighters who hunt down enemy figures trying to run off with the treasure. For each squad, craft the algorithm to fit its task. Start with "if 50% of squad dead or below 50% health", then "if no enemy within LOS", "if enemy within LOS but out of missile range", "if enemy within missile range but not charge range", "if enemy within charge range", "if in melee". You can add specific conditions based on the mission of the squad. For wizard and apprentice, have a "preferred spells list" for each of the conditions and choose the most appropriate one each activation. |
xLAVAx | 16 Oct 2015 2:27 a.m. PST |
In my solo games I always play against a "bigger" force and I use counters to represent the enemy on the board. The counters can be real or false units and I don't find out until I have LOS. Once I have LOS, I flip the counter to see if there is a real unit there or not. I have a false counter for every real one. I move the counters as if I am a second player but having no idea which is real and which is not. Brings lots of surprises and forces you to treat each counter as an actual threat. |
MajorB | 16 Oct 2015 5:32 a.m. PST |
Your troops come to a fork in the road in the woods. Which path do they take and why? They know nothing. There is no action yet – everyone is doing the preliminary advance into battle. No reason to expect problems of any sort.From that basis, you are choosing, but YOU know that there is an ambush on the right side but the left side is clear. They have no information either way. All I'm suggesting is that there are examples where if you are simply "playing the other side" there will be times when your personal knowledge, bias, etc. will affect the decisions "they" (you) make. Again, you have to put yourslef in the shoes of the commander on the ground. It is not what you, the player, choose to do, it is what he, the commander in real life, would choose to do. So what would he do? He might ask his immediate subordinates for advice. He might trust to his own intuition. Hell, he might even just toss a coin. How you decide that is one of the joys of solo gaming! There's an old adage in wargaming that is "let the dice decide". The Mythic gaming engine and various derivatives basically do just that. An of course the other alternative is that, the solo wwrgamer not being bound by prerssures of time, might possibly want to try both options in successive games!! |
MajorB | 16 Oct 2015 1:24 p.m. PST |
He might trust to his own intuition How does "he" do that without being "you" doing that to get or avoid a result?
That was just a real world example. I have no mechanism at the moment to simulate intuition. There's an old adage in wargaming that is "let the dice decide". The Mythic gaming engine and various derivatives basically do just that. My point exactly. So you do use some sort of solo gaming mechanisms.
But it is not a specifically "solo" mechanism. It is just as useful in a multi-player game. |
Ney Ney | 16 Oct 2015 2:20 p.m. PST |
If you're after the magic, how about combining froostgrave spells with the song of blades spell casting method? Set a level of difficult of 1-3 successes? |