"How Many Would You Have To Sell...?" Topic

Interesting thread yesterday on making suggestions to manufacturers, with much of the discussion revolving around the "practicality" of the suggestions. I was curious--what would projected sales have to be to persuade someone to put out my box of plastic 28mm Russian 1812 Dragoons? How many march attack 28mm Russian 1812 Grenadiers in metal would it take to break even? I'm guessing that Napoleonics are quite a bit slower than WW2?

I would think that you would have to sell the same number of left handed Bavarian Horse Grenadier kettle drummers from the War of Jenkins Ear to break even. However, that would be less likely to sell.

…Winston was _not_ being helpful…scribble, scribble…

Without knowing the exact production structure of the production…estimate that the 2 largest costs are the making of the greens and the mold--this could be a couple thousand dollars to several thousand dollars--the next thing to estimate is a practical price point for each mini

If you want a cheap mini---you need to make and sell thousands

This isn't plastic but to look at what it costs to make a pack, I have my Kosciuszko character pack. It contains three unique sculpts, one of them mounted, in 15mm.

I sell this pack for $4.50 USD just like the other packs in my range that contain 8 figures.

On most of the other packs I've just about broken even, they usually contain between 2 and 4 unique sculpts and typically when someone buys figures in my range they buy multiple packs of those.

So for the Russian infantry pack, for example, I paid for two sculpts that make an 8 figure pack. People will typically make 24 man units so need 3 packs and a command pack.

So about $300 USD plus $75 USD for the mold plus a little bit more for the master mold or about $400 USD for that pack.

That means I need to sell about 90 of them to break even. I've done that.

For the character pack, I have three unique sculpts for a total of about $600 USD (one is mounted remember.) The mold is only partial so with that and the partial master mold you might be talking about $30 USD in their portion of the mold, so about $630. USD

At $4.50 USD a pack I would have to sell 140 packs to break even.

The trouble is that my customers typically only buy 1 of those. So I have to have 140 customers to break even on that pack.

If you are looking at 28mm figures the initial cost is concomitantly higher but then you are selling the figures for more, but people also don't use as many.

Eureka in Australia has the 300 club which was one of the original crowd funding programs. The 300 club is for 15mm figures and the 100 club for 25mm figures.
eurekamin.com.au

Educated guess at 28mm plastics:Note: Not an attempt to be accurate, but rather, present an idea of what it takes to make figures these days- metal vs plastic:)

Master figure(s): 1 ea trooper, officer, musician and flag bearer @ $250.00 USD each= $1,000. USD Horse (two poses)@ $300 USD each= $600.00 USD. Total for masters= $1,600.00 USD

Machining for mold for plastics (including metal block, plumbing, etc.= $12,000 USD x 2 (Men and horses)= $24 USDK (yes, it has come down from the cost of a small house to that- using copper linings guaranteed up to 50K uses)

Production run (contracted out): $1.00 USD per sprue- minimum 1,000 at a time.

Box (including artwork)- Non-recurring charges for set-up , cutting, printing, artwork, etc+ $3,000. USD Cost per 500 boxes= $500.00 USD. Printing $3,500. USD

That's about $49,000. USD Now we did not include costs for labor to pack, box, ship, advertising, telephone bills, gas for business trips, other overhead.

Metal: 1 mold for riders; 2 for horses @ $35.00 USD each= $115.00 USD (includes labor). Masters=same cost= $1,600.00 USD. Packaging (assuming blister boxes) $1.10 USD each. Metal (last i checked Lead free pewter was costing $20.00 USD/lb. Say 100 lbs for 100 units; labels done on your own inkjet= $100.00 USD for cartridges and paper. Figure around $3,000. USD

Easier to sell metal than plastics to break even. You have to sell LOTS of boxes of plastics just to break even. Having an "in" with distribution chains a huge plus! Care yo second mortuage your house (literally) for one SKU of plastic 28mm Cav?

My hats off to those that have the backing (and success record) to keep them comming!

vv/r
Tom

Very interesting Pictors--thanks! I think the hobby is much smaller than my impression of it is.

no one has mentioned the # of figures in a lb of metal.
Im sure plastic has a similar pricing plan.

My information is old but consider this…..

A few years ago Games workshop – by far the biggest gorilla in the room – had gross sales worldwide of $220 USD million.

For comparison, the US domestic toothbrush industry is over $2 USD Billion.

When people ask me if historical gaming products are a "niche" product, I reply no. The industry would have to go on monkey steroids, and triple in size to maybe – maybe – be big enough to be considered a niche.

…plus factor in how much you want to pay yourself for the time to manage all of this, and the opportunity cost of tying capital up for x years. you'll have your cost of selling them (or the cut a retailer takes to do if for you) and other general business overheads to recoup before you can truly say you've made your money back.

…and no one wants to buy a squadron of troopers all in the same pose so you can add in some extra sculpting costs to dye4minis' sums for variant troopers and variant horses.

…and of course no one wants to buy your Russian 1812 dragoons unless you have their foot slogging friends and some opposition…

What? Pay the owner/workers of the miniatures form?

Sigh…based on all this, I have given up my dream of a plastic Bashkir horde…

Thanks again for the economics lessons…

I don't know that I'd give up entirely on the Bashkirs, Jeffrey. If some manufacturer makes bodies that would do, you might want to contact them about Bashkir specific heads, perhaps in metal, you could buy to turn their Cossacks/Pechenegs/Khazars/whatever into Bashkirs.

Grelber

…or wait a few years for home 3D printing to be a truly viable option, as there'll then be a plethora of people offering digital buy & print files of all manner of subjects.

Scary thought given how every CAD figure Ive seen has been less than a Tony Barton, a Perry or Tom Mier ……..shall we put it that way? lol
L

Having an "in" with distribution chains a huge plus!

Of course, with the discount you have to give the distributor (typically 50-55%), you have to sell even MORE packs.

and no one wants to buy a squadron of troopers all in the same pose

Actually, quite a lot of us prefer single poses, at least for Napoleonics and 18th Century stuff.

Ageed, Leon, to an extent. But the Zvezda WW2 packs are all CAD now I understand, as was their last big box Germans and Russians, and they looked pretty good.

So technology, and the user skill/experience, is growing and improving. Tool cutting and mould design will continue to be a big cost for plastics, but HaT have a huge range in 1/72 using China, so it is possible. And a lot of the newer HaT stuff is first rate.

So I think, for the more obscure topics, CAD and printing may offer a form of solution

Marc at work,
You maybe right, haven't seen the figures.
Not always easy to know what technique been used to make the figures. Everything in plastic Ive seen thats really good has been 3 up design ( as far as I know that is)method which is a neat combination of methods. Takes a lot of design skill mind you. Those Perry fellas are seriously good at it!
My problem with plastics as a whole is the lack of undercuts ( seprate parts get around this to an extent)just dont get really hard edges so my style of block in and wash painting style deosnt work very well.
L