Navy Fower Wun Seven | 11 Oct 2015 11:38 p.m. PST |
Another preview and thoughts from the nice chaps at Breakthough Assault: link
I was a little surprised at the 8 inch range of the gatling, but I guess when you're clipping along in a petrol budgie you don't shoot at long range! |
Mako11 | 12 Oct 2015 12:08 a.m. PST |
Excellent! Thanks for sharing. |
McWong73 | 12 Oct 2015 2:29 a.m. PST |
Yep, cheers for the link. Wonder if the models will be 1/100 or 1/144 scale… |
McWong73 | 12 Oct 2015 2:31 a.m. PST |
The gatling stats do look weird, but without the rules we're still in the dark somewhat. |
Mako11 | 12 Oct 2015 2:48 a.m. PST |
Perhaps multiple shots, and/or a long, narrow, beaten zone, for the gatling guns. That would seem to make sense to me. I saw on the link that someone was questioning the Hinds not being given the ability to hover, at least while attacking. From what I've read, it is so heavy that it hovers very poorly, so really does need to keep moving forward to stay airborne most of the time, especially in hot weather, or when heavily loaded. That info is based upon comments from US pilots flying Hinds we got from various sources, for testing, and OPFOR exercises. |
Doms Decals | 12 Oct 2015 4:10 a.m. PST |
Yep, spot on there – a fully loaded Hind pretty much *can't* hover, and doctrinally certainly didn't do so – Soviet doctrine was to fly them like modern-day Sturmoviks. |
paulgenna | 12 Oct 2015 5:43 a.m. PST |
Surprised on the low hit and high save. These helicopters are armored and most rounds penetrating should be prevented. Twenty issues also seems pretty short for the AT-6. |
McWong73 | 12 Oct 2015 7:13 a.m. PST |
Air was always going to be tricky to model properly, and is completely beyond me as to how to model for a game at this scale. Soviet air kit wasn't rubbish, but ours was far, far superior. They want to sell the models, there was never any question of it being in the game. From there the choices seem to be either make it be a random element like in current FoW, and you can give them both the ranges and potency they should have. Or you can make them active on board game units, but you have to do weird things like with the gatling range to keep them under control. This isn't a deal breaker for me, but methinks this will be one of those discussions that will be played over and over again when folks critique the game. That and how every single list will include lots shilkas and vulcans. |
Major Mike | 12 Oct 2015 8:09 a.m. PST |
Back in the early 80's some hinds and cobras were shadowing each other along the IGB in the 11th ACR sector. The cobras pulled a quick maneuver and a hind tried to follow and could not and became an expensive lawn dart. A fair amount of excitement ensued as it was not sure on which side of the border the wreckage was on. It was on the EG side and the Soviets brought in smoke teams and smoked the whole area while recovery operations occurred. When the smoke finally lifted there was no sign of any wreckage. |
coopman | 12 Oct 2015 8:36 a.m. PST |
I always find it amazing that a player's company could be "THE ONE" to actually get air support. Hopefully there is going to be some chance that they will not arrive (as in FOW). Automatic arrival would be ridiculous, IMO. I am surprised that six Hinds might arrive to support a player's company. I'm glad that I'm doing this in 6mm. |
79thPA | 12 Oct 2015 8:58 a.m. PST |
"The other thing to note is the air support is you now buy it in strength and not priority, combined with shooting as a normal unit it looks a lot more reliable." It sounds like a sure thing to me, but it is open to interpretation. |
Krieger | 12 Oct 2015 9:47 a.m. PST |
Well, the back of the A-10 card says "Strike aircraft: Roll each turn. Unit arrives on 4+, then leaves at the end of the turn." No such notion for the Hind, if your front is doing an heliborne assault, you get an heliborne assault. |
79thPA | 12 Oct 2015 10:06 a.m. PST |
Okay. Didn't notice that. Thanks. |
john lacour | 12 Oct 2015 11:00 a.m. PST |
the hinds tactics were "the wheel of death", so if you were lucky enough to have thier support, well, yeah. that would be fun. |
Mako11 | 12 Oct 2015 12:56 p.m. PST |
I suspect over the front lines, and at key points of attack, there'd be a pretty good chance of air support, so having one appear over a company-sized battle seems about right to me. US and Soviets/W.P. use helos in that way. US also uses A-10s. Supposedly, Frogfoots are assigned to attack behind the front lines, generally, at columns of armor, and other targets. I suspect the A-10s might try to do that too, if they can find bunched up targets. |
Navy Fower Wun Seven | 12 Oct 2015 12:57 p.m. PST |
I always find it amazing that a player's company could be "THE ONE" to actually get air support. You mean you actually want to wargame a backwater? We are talking modern armoured warfare here, the Soviets won't advancing on a broad front as per Ike in WW2, each thrust will be considered the tip of the spear with all resources thrown at it, until such time as it stalls, in which case it will receive nothing and all resources diverted to points of breakthrough… It would be odd to wargame an armoured encounter without massed and regular all arms support, including Frontal Aviation…. |
Navy Fower Wun Seven | 12 Oct 2015 12:58 p.m. PST |
On the forum it has been stated the Helos will be in 1:100 scale. Not sure about the Fast Air…. |
McWong73 | 12 Oct 2015 2:23 p.m. PST |
There's some truth to that sparks, valid point. |
Lion in the Stars | 12 Oct 2015 7:15 p.m. PST |
Fast Air for Vietnam and AIW is 1/144 scale, so I expect A10s and Su25s to be 1/144. Helos for Vietnam are all 1/100. And of course the Hinds are going to be on-table, that's how the Cobras work in Vietnam. They can go anywhere on table, place the model where you want it. And the Vietnam rules make attacks against helos roll firepower, so a 4+ regular save plus firepower roll is brutally tough. |
pigasuspig | 13 Oct 2015 5:17 p.m. PST |
Range doesn't really mean what it normally does if you just stick down the aircraft whereever you feel like. Really it seems more related to speed: the A-10 is going to be right on top of its cannon target, as in addition to shooting, it's flying straight forward towards the target very, very fast. Maybe that should also be true of the Hind, but I imagine a heli constantly moving forward is still a lot slower than a jet (even a slow jet). |