"Bill, Please Clarify: Does TMP Demand Respect for ISIL?" Topic

We have become too PC….ISIL/ISIS/DAESH are murderous thugs; I rue the day we have to coddle them.

I suggest a poll, to permit the disparagement of all terrorist groups, supporters, and individuals, through mocking, name-calling, shaming, and anything else we can think of.

Along with that, I think cheerleading and celebrations of their setbecks, defeats, and demise should be permitted too.

Perhaps a commemorative, moving, dancing figure icon we can download as well, for really over the top celebrations. Kind of like those that pro football players do in the end zones after a score.

The rule came about after a mass DH'ing during the last big Israeli military dust-up.

In general, I support keeping the rule in all cases or repealing it in all cases.
No exceptions or special cases.

Why do you need a rule or the repealing of a rule? Just stick to the facts and describe accurately the deeds and misdeeds of the organizations involved. Using terms like "Daesh-bag" achieves nothing. IS/ISIS/ISIL/DAESH are terrorists who don't give a second thought to slitting the throats and beheading people at the drop of a hat. Does anyone really think that calling them names is going to offend them? If you want to get personal call them really bad Muslims who have forsaken Islam for an ultra-violent death cult which is a cancer within Islam. That is what IS really is and a more damning indictment does not exist. They are followers of death, not Islam and they have no place in Dar al Islam. They are apostate murderers who will never know paradise or peace and will die in a conflagration of their own making. They are evil incarnate and have brought hell to the world of the living. They shame Islam and the God they claim to adore and they bring low the Arab world and civilization which was once so great and could be again but for the actions of fanatics of the IS ilk. They are hate in its purest form.
Rod Robertson.

I whole heartedly second what Rod said above. Seared into my memory is video of Palestinians dancing in the streets on 9/11/2001. That was "cheerleading" in its ugliest form.

Good Lord! Really? This is what you have to worry about?

Speaking of repugnance, how does our side bombing hospitals fit into all this? Haven't seen anything mentioned on here about it.

Calling ISIS silly names is not appropriate for the forum. The purpose of the Ultramodern board is to discuss wargaming. If you want to express your opinion of ISIS, please adjourn to our sister site, The Blue Fez.

I would like to apologise for my last comment. I've since seen that the topic I referred to has been discussed here, and with considerable maturity. Again, my apologies for having hastily come to an incorrect judgment.

Best,
Aaron

I agree with the OP. Instead of banning using childish and offensive names for anyone, we should simply limit that ban to the people Ditto Tango 2 3 thinks are repugnant enough not to deserve that protection.

Easy-peasy.

Slavers, rapists and murderers get nothing…NOTHING!

go ahead, ready to be DH'D.

OK, that's enough. I've established that expressing opinions is what on line forums are generally about.

So why is ISIL exempt from opinions?

Can you not see the difference between expressing an opinion on specific behaviour/actions and comparing a group at large to a feminine hygiene product?

Everyone can say what you want. If you want to be PC with the Caliphate, fine. Just don't expect me to.

I don't see the difference between such statements and "silly names". Can you explain that?

The difference between being mature and juvenile.

I completely agree with the Editor, who is showing excellent judgement.

I don't think I have ever said that before :)

I think what ze editor is trying to do is elevate the dialogue a bit.

I think what ze editor is trying to do is elevate the dialogue a bit.

I actually tend to agree.
Playing games with names like that just makes the person doing it look foolish. I think it's a childish thing to do no matter how repugnant your target might be.

And yes, before anyone asks, I'm consistent. People calling the President "Obummer" are just as juvenile as those on the other side talking about "Republikkkans".

I agree with Bill.
Keeping our dialogues learned rather than puerile is in TMP's best interest.
I also agree that ISIL are the present day terrorist scourge to all people who believe in free speech and equality for all.

It seems some people have way too much free time…

+2 for Rod. He has stated the actual truth.

Tim, you're a pretty respectful, sensible person. But not everyone here is. The DH is quite often filled with people who just seem to have no self control.

I can't imagine anyone on TMP is an ISIS enthusiast. But, look at it this way: if every time we discussed the Axis forces of WWII we felt compelled to call them names, we would quickly devolve a very childish level.

I don't think Bill's behaviour in his last responding to my question is respectful in any sense of the adjective. The style of the response seems condescending. OK, Bill, your show.

Sorry, I was in a bit of a hurry. It's my birthday, you know.

Completely agree with the action of Editor Bill. Keep all that stuff out. Or not, whatever you choose on a wargaming site.

I was DH'd some years ago as a newish member ignorant of the rules for responding in robust fashion to some political statement I disagreed with. Quite right too – I should have just pressed the button and got on with talking figures and games ;)

Bill has also not answered the other three, nor the topic question. Again, I don't think I've used silly names for ISIL in the past, but I think I can make a conclusion from my unanswered questions that I find absolutely… strange.

That could be because you are asking ridiculous questions. Your are superimposing a set of beliefs on others because they do not agree with you on one point.

Can you find any documented statement in the FAQ or a documented example of DHing that was based solely on expressing an opinion (without savage swearing, name calling, wishing the object of the opinion dead, etc.)?

Those don't exist. You are making up strawmen and attacking the policy with them.

So now that it's not your birthday, why don't you take a second and go fill in the blanks Bill? I think Tim asked politely enough.

Binky says "OINK"

Well, on reviewing his original post, I think I did in fact answer all his questions.

The purpose of the "no cheerleading" rule is to encourage mature behavior on the Ultramodern board. It should not be a place for juvenile behavior.

This has nothing to do with forcing anyone to respect any particular group or organization.

Why is it called cheerleading ??

To get back to the OP's points and questions, I think the Editor in Chief is not asking the membership to give respect to IS/ISIS/ISIL/DAESH but rather to respect the membership and comport ourselves with maturity and a modicum of dignity. Calling Middle Eastern terrorist groups silly or inflammatory names does not inform the discussion or clarify anything. It just allows that poster to blow off some steam and express their frustration with terrorist groups. But, as many are frustrated, it can lead to a swarm of name calling and jingoism which achieves nothing and derails what just might be an insightful conversation. Thus, to my mind, it is respect for ourselves and not IS which is being demanded here. Of course I could be wrong in this but that would be my take, Ditto Tango 23.
Cheers and good gaming.
Rod Robertson.

Oh for goodness sake some arguments here need to be seen to be believed. Guys you cannot have a good history / anything debate with name calling.

Why is it called cheerleading ??

It is the contrast between intelligent, mature discussion versus mindless jingoism and boosterism for one side or the other.

Thanks Bill! – On another note I think that by refusing to dehumanize the enemy we make it easy to end the war. Wars on nouns rarely end.

I saw this interesting quote today:

Give respect to people whether they deserve it or not, Not as a reflection of their character, but as a reflection of your own personality.
- Kemmy Nola

Maybe an automatic link to the rules to any new topics on the Ultra Modern board….

Why have a different standard on Ultramodern than on any other board?