"Big Battle Medieval Rules?" Topic

I'm looking to start a new project in our club with 10mm medieval battles. This has long been a period of interest for many of our guys, but we've only done skirmish-level actions before. Could anyone suggest some favorite sets for medieval-era big battles? I don't know what's out there in this period since it's not my typical era. Looking for rules that would generally work for the Crusades through War of the Roses. It should be able to resolve large multi-player battles in about 3 hours or less and emphasize the role of personalities--lords, dukes, etc--as much as the tactical units themselves.

So far, we've been browsing Days of Knights (by Chipco) and Coat of Steel (Perfect Captain) because both sets seem to have some really interesting concepts. I am hoping to find something with unique ideas and mechanics, as opposed to the generic "I move all my units and roll a fistful of dice" approach found in so many sets. Looking for any good recommendations please!

DBMM does this period quite well IMO. It certainly has unique ideas and is absolutely not a "move all my units forward and roll a fistfull of dice" rule set.

At the Canberra club we have played many multi-player scenarions ranging from specific battles like Clontarf to some generic scenarios such as randomly generated WotR, and they have all been a hoot. We did a 4 a side Central Asian scenario with commands of LH running all over the place, with the most fluid front line you could imagine. Clontarf was a satisfying slug-fest.

All games played out in 3 hours. The element system is perfect for 10mm figures. You can also use the Army lists to set you up for your forces before you tweak them for specific scenarios.

What it doesn't do is emphasise the role of personalities, but you can use the Briliant and Inert mechanisms to provide some flavour. However I think you will find rules that cover those things may be too narrow in scope to go from Crusades to WotR.

DBMM has a Yahoo group, a web forum and a Facebook page if you need any help.

Cheers,
JohnG

Try Piquet's Band of Brothers.

A "Coat of Steel" is a very fine rule set, but is very specific the the Wars of The Rises and it takes an awful lot of setting up in terms of printing cards etc. Our little group uses "Sword and Spear" quite a lot. We have played 4 player games successfully and, given the right sized table, I see no reason why it could not work with 3 or 4 players per side. Available as a printed book or as pdf.

link

Another one worth considering is the " Impetus" set. There is a free download " Basic Impetus" which enable you to get a feel of the rules without shelling out any dosh:-

link

Big Battle DBA
or Hail Caesar

according to choice.

Days of Knights is a good choice – leaders are crucial and the game plays very fast. Sword and Spear has had a good reception also on these pages.

Your criteria is that of Hail Caesar. It is what the game was designed for. Large club/convention battles that can be completed in an evening. I have not played Hail Caesar specifically but have played Pike and Shotte. It is very old school in it's hit/save mechanic with a moral check after that. There are special rules to modify how units behave by type. If you use care in not assigning too many of these rules, the game will go swiftly.

Mine/ours. The only thing lacking in "your list" of requirements is the "role of personalities". In fact, on a large battlefield, that would be reduced to nil. Only the chroniclers augment the "big man" into a battle-changing force of nature. In reality, he's just caught up in the scrum with everyone else. If he's one of those rare "hang back in the rear and watch how the battle is going", i.e. a real general, then yes, he might have a personal impact on the outcome. I can't think of more than a handful of those: William the Conqueror (a mixture, though, because he definitely got stuck into the melee too), Bohemond of Taranto, Edward III.

you might want the link ;) link

Thanks for the suggestions and commentary, guys. We have tried DBA/DBM, Impetus, and Hail Caesar at one time or another for ancients. I've never heard of Band of Brothers or Sword and Spear but I will investigate both of them next.

While I do agree that the role of nobles/individuals on the battlefield was limited historically, the 10mm armies I'm building will be doing double duty for a Game of Thrones, so we need rules that emphasize characters. That's very central to capturing the flavor/chrome of the Song of Ice and Fire universe. I plan to paint most of the troops as general medieval men-at-arms, and then sprinkle in some extra command stands and household units painted with GoT house sigils to be used as necessary.

Ideally, the rules we find will suit well for the historical War of the Roses or its lite-fantasy counter-part, Game of Thrones.

I'll throw in the suggestion of To the Strongest! by Big Red Bat Productions. It's meant to handle big battles and IMO succeeds. The game uses a grid for movement and ranged shooting, so tends to produce linear battles (deliberate on the part of the author's game design), but for the period you're interested in that isn't really a problem. Personalities do play a role as generals or inspiring individuals, but they don't impact the combat capabilities much – line units are what decide the battles.

I'll throw in the suggestion of To the Strongest! by Big Red Bat Productions

Another good choice.

I've never heard of…. Sword and Spear but I will investigate both of them next.

You can find out more about Sword & Spear on my website:
link

To see what other people have to say about them, here is a page with extracts of reviews of the rules and and links to the full reviews:
link

There is lots of discussion about the rules, including over 50 battle reports, on my forum:
link

Looking for rules that would generally work for the Crusades through War of the Roses. It should be able to resolve large multi-player battles in about 3 hours or less…
I am hoping to find something with unique ideas and mechanics, as opposed to the generic "I move all my units and roll a fistful of dice" approach found in so many sets.

I think you will certainly find that Sword & Spear fits these requirements.

Keep meaning to try Sword and Spear – a little put off by being told that Scottish knights were rated negatively to English ones.

My advice: try Hail Caesar.
That is a good Multi-player ruleset, where you can have a game with lots of figures in about 3 hours.

Ideally, the rules we find will suit well for the historical War of the Roses or its lite-fantasy counter-part, Game of Thrones.

Then IMHO you definitely should try BBDBA with DBA v3.0. If you haven't tried V3.0 yet then you really should. It works extremely well for WOTR. Much better than earlier versions of DBA.

I've done an adaptation of DBA3.0 for Song of Ice and Fire (Game of Thrones in TV land).

I second the rec for DBA 3.0 – which is much better for medieval settings than prior editions.

Its called Game of Ice and Fire. I use the Hordes of the Things rules to add characters, dragons, wooly mammoths etc.

Contact me at: TomAndKate@aol.com

TomT

Nothing stopping you rating your Scottish knights equal to English in your games

I have been meaning to have a shot at it; I'm a total history geek and I'm keen to find a good set of rules for the 14th C.

Impetus does it nicely. None of that specialized stands. All my halberds are there, all my lances there etc.

A game like Hail Caesar is at its best when run as a big multiplayer game with an umpire. With the way you want to emphasise characters maybe giving individuals their own objectives alongside the army ones. For example with aSoIaF background maybe Tyrion wants to use the opportunity of commanding his flank to show daddy that he's a better commander than Jaime and rout more opposing troops, maybe even take Robb Stark as his prisoner? Perhaps the umpire could even allow for betrayal, perhaps the Tyrells see the battle turning and switch sides?

Obviously a similar situation is appropriate in the WotR with all the different factions working for their own gains. Basic ideas for using the characters more in HC but I'm sure it could work out in other rules systems if you prefer the way they play.

One more vote for Impetus here

To the Strongest does what you're looking for if you can deal with the grid aspect of the table (i actually quite like it).

Hail Caesar works for me, played some huge games. Give commanders the ability to confer the benefit of one of the special rules to the unit they have joined for that turn, or in a small radius.of them.

I put a vote in for Poleaxed by the Lance and Longbow Society. Although overtaken a bit by Hail Ceasar and Pike and Shot these rules are still very playable and specific for the late medieval period, I have used them successfully for WoR and Flodden

Does hail Caesar work for 15mm figures? I've been seeing a lot of people play it but only with 28mm figures which I'm not trying to get into.

Also looking to try Sword and Spear as I've heard a lot about it (that and le are de guarre). Really is sad to hear they rated Scottish knights worse than English as this just wasn't true by late 13th century.

In the Sword & Spear army list for Feudal Scots, they can have just as good knights as in the Feudal English lists – just not as many of them.

Does Hail Caesar work for 15mm figures?

Yes, of course it does. It's a unit based game so the size of figures is pretty irrelevant.