Tango01 | 05 Oct 2015 10:51 p.m. PST |
…Entering their Air Space. "As Russian warplanes fly over Syria, neighboring NATO member Turkey says its fighter jets could open fire on them if they stray into Turkish airspace. The threat is serious and highlights the danger of a direct military confrontation between Russia and its old Cold War adversaries, including not just Turkey but the United States. Tensions between Ankara and Moscow over Russia's stepped-up military involvement in the Syrian war escalated sharply on Monday when Turkey revealed two of its F-16 fighters intercepted a Russian jet that had crossed into Turkish airspace over the town of Yayladagi in the border province Hatay. The two countries are rivals in the Syrian conflict, with Turkey calling for an end to the rule of Syrian leader Bashar al-Assad and Russia presenting itself as Assad's most important ally…" Full article here link Shooting down a Russian plane will open a "Pandora's Box" of retaliation. What is also troubling is that Bloomberg is reporting that it was the Russian MIGs that locked onto the Turkish fighters, and not the other way around… link U.S. officials believe that this territorial violation was done on purpose … link YouTube link Amicalement Armand |
Mako11 | 05 Oct 2015 11:55 p.m. PST |
A shame those Patriot batteries are no longer there. My guess is that the Russian AF would be a lot better behaved if they were. |
greatpatton | 06 Oct 2015 12:06 a.m. PST |
I suppose that the Russians are maybe sending a message to Turkey asking them to stop to bomb the Kurds and to support (at least indirectly) ISIS. |
Puster | 06 Oct 2015 2:00 a.m. PST |
@greatpatton That would be ironic, as its exactly the same the Russians do – just that they do not bomb the Kurds but the non-IS rebel groups that usually fight the IS. Assad needs the IS as a justification for his very existance. Thus, the Russians will not really tough the IS unless the other rebels have been eliminated (as they endanger their ally Assad). That said, Syria becoming a Russian dependant under Russian control is probably better for the most people there then the existing state of being hunted and haunted by both IS and Assad. |
greatpatton | 06 Oct 2015 3:16 a.m. PST |
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Oh Bugger | 06 Oct 2015 3:28 a.m. PST |
Yeah the myth of the moderates now you see 'em now you don't. It beggars belief that we have Western politician bleating about AQ getting thumped. I see Lavarov has requested details of any modertates so they can be excuded from punitive action-none forthcoming so far. The Conservate Chairman of the UK Defence Select Committee summed it up nicely "Fantasy school boy politics". What bothers me is that some Western policy makers seem to believe that the jihadis have no agency of their own but instead can be manipulated at will. The lesson should have been learned by now. Libya lest we forget. |
Badgers | 06 Oct 2015 5:36 a.m. PST |
While we can argue over whether the rebels are AQ or not, I think we can all agree that ISIS are ISIS? Then why can't the Russians bomb them? |
Oh Bugger | 06 Oct 2015 5:56 a.m. PST |
They already have also look at greatpatton's link the only 'rebels' are jihadis many of them foriegn fighters. It really is the myth of the moderates. I believe Russia just bombed ISIS at Palmyra yesterday they have already bombed ISIS HQ. |
Bangorstu | 06 Oct 2015 7:41 a.m. PST |
One of those 'Russian' planes was a MiG-29, which means it belonged to the Syrian Air Force as Russia has none of that type in theatre. So only one incursion… if it was an accident, it won't happen again. time will tell. |
Mako11 | 06 Oct 2015 10:18 a.m. PST |
It will happen again. Just wait and see. Russia is letting everyone in the region know that they are a force to be reckoned with, just like their doing with all those jets flying over and around the EU, and off the coasts of America, on the 4th of July. Austensibly, the latter was to wish us and/or our Air Force pilots a happy Independence Day, as they flew their nuke-capable bombers within 30 miles of the CA coastline. |
coopman | 06 Oct 2015 12:11 p.m. PST |
Wait until I get the popcorn popped! :^) |
doug redshirt | 06 Oct 2015 3:28 p.m. PST |
Actually no love lost between Turkey and Russia, anyone remember how many wars they have fought against each other in just the last 300 years. I cant count that high. |
Oh Bugger | 06 Oct 2015 6:20 p.m. PST |
So that's it then no more bombing the Syrian Kurds for Turkey. link |
zippyfusenet | 06 Oct 2015 7:36 p.m. PST |
The Turks are seriously screwed. The natural retaliatory step would be for Turkey to close the Bosphorus to Russian ships. That would be an act of war under international law. Stay tuned. |
cwlinsj | 06 Oct 2015 7:54 p.m. PST |
There has been two incursions by Russia and one by Syria (the Mig-29). Not really accidental since the intruders locked their firing radars on Turkish planes. Clearly a provication to warn the Turks off. Let's see if the Turks put up with this. |
Oh Bugger | 07 Oct 2015 2:38 a.m. PST |
I'd say it goes like this. The Turks have violated Syrian airspace on a number of occasions in order to bomb the Syrian Kurds and keep the supply lines open to the jihadis so that men and munitions reach the Jihadis. The Syrian Government have asked the Russians to support them to combat the Jihadis. The Russians are now moving to enforce Syria's air space integrity on the Turkish border. It seems only one crossing point is left in Jihadi hands and the Syrians, Russians and Kurds intend to close it. In terms of international law they have every right to do so and so Turkey can complain or instigate open war in which it would be the agressor. Edogan lacks the internal support to do so as far as I can see. Not least because such a war would be fought on Turkish soil as the Turkish Kurds would ally with their compatriots in the hope of a Kurdish state post conflict. |
bishnak | 07 Oct 2015 3:42 a.m. PST |
Turkey shooting down Russian jets doesn't seem like a plausible threat to me. Is Turkey (a member of NATO) really going to allow itself to be drawn into a shooting war with Russia?! Would NATO let them? Would NATO really want to be drawn into it? I doubt it. So if it's not a plausible threat it loses all credibility. Anyone remember the "red line" over use of Chemical weapons? Threat not followed through = lost credibility… |
paulgenna | 07 Oct 2015 10:06 a.m. PST |
Sounds like Turkey wants NATO to bail them out. Let's get the Patriot batteries back for free. Let someone else foot the bill. |
doug redshirt | 07 Oct 2015 6:29 p.m. PST |
NATO countries all have the right to defend their air space and to call on allies to help defend that air space. What would the US do if Russian planes crossed over into our air space and were flying over California or Maryland? |
Aristonicus | 08 Oct 2015 4:32 a.m. PST |
Ah, but what does Turkey consider its' airspace? Turkey has maintained a buffer zone five miles inside Syria since June 2012, when a Syrian air defense missile shot down a Turkish fighter plane that had strayed into Syrian airspace. Under revised rules of engagement put in effect then, the Turkish air force would evaluate any target coming within five miles of the Turkish border as an enemy and act accordingly. linkBut obviously there has been some confusion: Turkish military sources said a Russian SU-30 breached Turkish airspace for hundreds of meters in the southern district of Yayladağı in Hatay province for two minutes at 12:10 p.m., but returned to Syrian airspace after one warning.The Russian authorities informed the Turkish military attaché in Moscow about the error, Russian Embassy officials in Ankara told Hürriyet Daily News. "The Russian aircraft exited Turkish airspace into Syria after it was intercepted by two F-16s from the Turkish Air Force, which were conducting patrols in the region," a written statement by the Turkish Foreign Ministry said Oct. 5. The Turkish air forces initially worked to understand if the aircraft was Russian SU-29 or SU-24, which are also included in the Syrian air forces, until they determined that the plane was SU-30 model used only by Russia, sources said. U.S. media first reported on Oct. 4 that a Russian warplane on a bombing run in Syria had flown within five miles of the Turkish border.A Turkish security official reportedly said Turkish radar locked onto the Russian aircraft as it was bombing early Oct. 2 in al-Yamdiyyah, a Syrian village directly on the border. He said Turkish fighter jets would have attacked if it had crossed into Turkish airspace. A U.S. military official suggested that the incident had come close to sparking an armed confrontation. Reading from a report, he said the Russian aircraft had violated Turkish air space by five miles and that Turkish jets had been scrambled, but the Russian aircraft had returned to Syrian airspace before Turkey could respond. link |