"Preacher/cleric ECW" Topic

It is a co-incidence but my Q is very similar to Steve's topic. So sorry Steve for duplicating. This is about the figures that I am making for the Regiment of Foote rules(15mm ECW battles).
My question is this. Would a preacher figure be typical/plausible in Royalist armies(Vincent Price). . I thought I might do a dour preacher for the Parliamentarians. For the Royalists a more flamboyant preacher ( but i have no idea how he mght be dressed) I assume the royalist chap would not be a catholic??. For the Covenanters a fiery and severe reformist?

The packs will also have a dog ,as in "i have a dog in this fight +2" and an ensign to mark campaign progress. Other sprinkles will include a scarecrow and signpost.

thank you in advance

martin

Martin,

I think a plump fellow with a big hat and even bigger feather might do for a Royalist. Maybe not a typical 'preacher' type (who I suspect would look similar for either side) but fun and distinctive.

The Vincent Price Witchfinder General would be great for the Puritanical Roundhead preacher.

Regards

Sean

Those Royalists are rogues!

I was just looking at Stephen's ideas for expanding character pieces in Pike & Shotte and like where they are going. As mainly a solo gamer anything that can potentially alter the course of events (and has a story to go with it!) is welcome. Don't know if it has been done yet but when I was still doing 25mm I had a few figures in New Model regiments wearing sea-green arm bands to represent Levellers. The idea was they might mutiny at an inopportune time – never got further than the idea however. I am a total newbie (and therefore enthusiastic) to this forum so I have NO idea what has been done or discussed before.

Un-researched and off the top of my head – Preachers and clerics:
The Scots Presbyterian would certainly be dour beyond dour and any illustrations I've seen are dressed in black (although IIRC black was a fairly expensive colour).
Down south the Puritan and other non-conformist preachers would be plainly dressed but not necessarily in black and lay-preachers could be dressed about anyway you can imagine (but with a wild look in the eye!). The Royalists would have Anglican (CoE) priests who would wear standard clerical garb (black robe, white collars of various types, and usually a close fitting black cap) or even vestments (white over-robe and stoles – red or black likely) if performing sacraments. Some (or many) Royalists in Scotland were Roman Catholic and priests were sometimes available but likely not wearing gaudy clerical garb. Then of course there is Ireland.

In the movie "Cromwell" (do I hear groans?) many things seem wrong in military dress but they did seem to get religious dress pretty much right.

Down south the Puritan and other non-conformist preachers would be plainly dressed but not necessarily in black

But certainly wearing Geneva bands.

Remember that the Catholic religion was officially proscribed so any Catholic priests would not be dressed as priests.

Quite true, Major B, Geneva bands would have been worn by most clerics of any strip – and lawyers too – I think. The original non-conformists and the more radical probably wouldn't be caught dead in one, however.

And, yes, being a Catholic priest was pretty much a covert operation, given the laws. They certainly wouldn't wear vestments (maybe Henrietta Maria's household did?) and likely didn't even have them, but in safer areas (parts of the Western Highlands maybe) perhaps they would wear a cassock?
No evidence to support that however.

Thank you very much..job done. I will get on with the figures now
thanks again. I will try to get a dour look on the faces….

martin

In answer to the question "What would Catholic priests look like in this period?" the universal answer would be: "Nervous!" Not specific to the ECW period, but for general information about clerical attire, on and off duty……

I attended a Jesuit school in London in the 1970s, and we were told that it was still against the law for Catholic clergy to wear clothing that identified them as RC – chieffly cassocks and berettas – apparently the law was to prevent inciting anti-Papist riots. The wearing of any vestments in public required approval from (I think) the local police, and an officer (usually a member of the local congregation) would accompany outdoor services, especially any that took place on public land or used the public highway. (Avid watchers of "Father Brown" might like to note that the eponymous hero gets away with wearing his cassock far too often in public, even in a rural parish in the 1950s.)

Outside school and especially in public places, the Js who taught me would wear a plain black or blue shirt with a white "dog collar" insert (so they looked like a CofE cleric), under a plain jacket – usually black – with black trousers. Being men of a certain age, this was invariably topped off with a black beret (usually ex-WW2 vintage) or black homburg. As pointed out above, 17th/18th/19th Century attire would have been normal civilian clothing of appropriate style, often with a wide-brimmed black hat; in Catholic countries, cassocks might have been more common when out in public.

Anglican clerical dress hasn't changed much in many places. if you go to traditional C of E evensong, the priest will be wearing black cassock, white surplice and black stole, similar to many 17th century clergy portraits. Guillaume above referred to red stoles but these can be white, green, purple or red depending on the liturgical season (but only if you were 'high' church). On the other hand, the collection of Laudian vestments in St John's College, Oxford, shows that dress could be as highly decorated as contemporary high church or Catholic vestments.

So plenty of room for variants depending on what you want to portray. Then, as now, the C of E was a broad church.

…the collection of Laudian vestments in St John's College, Oxford, shows that dress could be as highly decorated as contemporary high church or Catholic vestments.

Several American friends refer to Anglicanism as "Catholic Lite".

i wil now proceed. thank you chaps

Figures now done, Just to show that your efforts were appreciated!

thanks

martin

In the UK high church Anglicans are sometimes termed Anglo-Catholics. In effect they represent the English take on a Lutheran reformed Catholic church.

SM I also attended a Catholic school in the 60's and 70's but I didn't know about the legal restrictions on wearing clerical garb. There in a nutshell is the beauty of TMP. You can learn something new every day.

Got it!!