"Prussian cuirassier uniform" Topic

I am finishing off a couple of cuirassier units for my 10mm 1813-1814 Prussians. I went with the blue litewka for the rank and file but now its time to paint up the officer, trumpeter and flag bearer. My hard copy references are pretty basic and not much help here. Google turned up a few sites with some contradictory images.

I assume the flag bearer would have the same uniform as the line troopers. The officer would be similarly attired (at least at 10mm.) My real quandary is the trumpeter. The only distinction I've found is reference to a red helmet crest as opposed to the normal black. Was there any other distinguishing uniform item?

Any help would be appreciated.

red crested helmets ?? – No

Swallows nests in the facing colour, braided in the button colour, were worn on both shoulders. The Brandenburg regiment wore red swallows nests on the litewka. Trumpet cords either red and white or facing colour/button colour (sources disagree).

The standard bearers were SNCO's and wore the troopers' uniforms. Flag lances were crimson/ purple (1st), light or cornflower blue (2nd), white (3rd/GdC) and Russian Blue (4th). Bandoliers were black fringed gold (1st), Cornflower Blue edged gold (2nd), Poppy Red fringed silver (3rd/GdC) and Russian Blue fringed gold for the KR Nr 4. No, I didn't make a mistake with the bandolier for KR Nr 2, it's given as gold in the most reliable source document.

I think it's Russians that had red crests, not Prussians.

Cheers.

Dal.

According to Digby Smith, 'An Illustrated Encyclopedia of Uniforms of the Napoleonic Wars', trumpeters were distinguished by 'swallows' nests' on their shoulders which were in the facing colour trimmed with wide lace in the button colour. He says that red horsehair crests were normally reserved for parades and that on active service black crests would have been worn. A trumpeter might well also have been an NCO and so would also have had button-colour braid on the collar and cuffs. From 1807-14 NCO lace went along the front and bottom of the open collar and along the top and back of the cuff. In 1814 a closed collar was introduced and the lace now ran along the top and front of the collar.

If they were good for parade the. They will be good for my table. How reliable is Digby

I think Digby Smith is generally pretty reliable. However, he is not a specialist on Prussian uniforms and in a general work like the one I was referencing there is always the danger that mistakes may have crept in. So you may want to double check before you get the red paint out.

In early April 1814, when the Prussian cuirassiers adopted the French cuirasses taken in Versailles and Paris, their trumpeters were also equipped for parade with red bearskin crests taken from French carabinier helmets. These crests were cut to match the Prussian shape. Before, trumpeters' crests had been black.

Prussian NCOs and trumpeters did not have rank distinctions on their litewkas and greatcoats, nor swallow nests.

On the normal coat, trumpeters carried the usual NCOs' distinctions on collars and cuffs, in addition to the swallow nests.

So the Prussians 'scalped' the French carabiniers? I bet the French weren't happy about that.

It gets better: I understand the Carabiniers' brass-covered cuirasses went to the Prussian Garde du Corps, so there' a tiny, but real chance that my GdC great-grandfather ended up with the cuirass of my wife's great-great-grandfather…

Thank you all for your help. I'll go with the black crest since everyone else is in campaign dress. It looks like my figures have swallows nests on them so I'll paint them up. However, at 10mm I'll skip the braid/ lace on the collar and cuffs.

Oliver, thanks for clearing up the question on the litewka. I'd read conflicting information, where any was provided (from memory even Pietsch doesn't address the question) and jumped the wrong way.

I'm trying to organise a trip to Europe next year, to research flags from the period 1700-1815. As well as Vienna, Berlin and Ingolstadt I want to visit Ghent (I have some good photo's of the KR Nr 9 Regimentsstandarte on display there), Paris (do they still have the flags photographed in the late 1890's/early 1900's?) and perhaps even St Petersburg, if someone can confirm that the flags from the 1902 Jahrebuch are available for inspection.

The trip is unlikely to come off, but there's still a small chance I can sort it.

Cheers.

Dal.

Dal, I believe the Wehrgeschichtliches Museum in Rastatt has/had a huge collection of flags and standards as well, but maybe only of later periods.

You would have to ask:

wgm-rastatt.de

Rastatt is only 70 km from Heidelberg ;-)

Ingolstadt is also not that far away from where I live, pm sent

Oli and HK, I've been e-mailing the museums and asking what's available to view. The STA.M in Ghent has been really helpful, a couple of others haven't answered. As for the trip, I have to convince one ex-wife to cooperate before things become viable, without much success to date. Negotiations continue.

I'm not just looking at Prussian flags, either. I'd like to cover A-H, minor German states, Russian, the Netherlands, UK and France as well. Even flags that are considered no good for public display will provide valuable information, particularly if they're sewn/embroidered rather than painted.

Oli, thanks for the tip on Rastatt. I've left a few spare days in the planned itinerary so I can add it easily. Thet's a nice site that they have.

Will answer e-mails soon.

Cheers.

Dal.

I would be interested if anyone could confirm something I think I remember reading about 1813-14 Prussian Cuirassiers but can't recall the reference now.

It that on forming part of the army of Bohemia in summer 1813, the Prussian Cuirassiers were ordered to don their white kollets on days when battle was expected- so they would appear more consistent in dress with their Russian and Austrian counterparts.

If there is such an order- and I don't think I've imagined it- quite a few manufacturers should be recasting their Cuirassiers to depict them accurately as they would have actually appeared in 'battle' (which is what we wargamers want), rather than the more dreary marching and counter marching of 'campaign'.

Grateful for any confirmation/refutation.

Unfortunately, nothing new has surfaced since last year:

TMP link

It could help if you found the reference for this all-Allied-cuirassiers-in-white order, as this reference should give a source which can be checked.