"FV-432 APC Mix?" Topic

Back in the day, I only recall seeing the FV-432 with the split, folding hatches.

However, I now see that there's apparently a remote turret option for the machine gun.

What I'd like to know is when the latter was introduced, and how widely it was used?

The peak turret, not a remote turret, came in the the early 80s. It was also fitted to the Saxon, in the 90s.

According to Andy Rix – coldwargamer.blogspot.co.uk – he was a platoon Commander with 1 QLR in the mid 80s there could be a mix of 2 with and 2 without or all 4 with in a platoon.

Tally Ho!

or none with :)

Yup, wot he said. The Peak Engineering turret was originally designed for the cancelled Vixen scout car and was apparently something of a heavy b'stard to turn.

Wasn't the Peak turret only in service with the Berlin Brigade? (Along with those 432's fitted with the Rarden Cannon turret?)

Thanks for the replies thus far. I really appreciate them.

I look forward to the Berlin unit reply, with interest.

I do recall reading that only 19 of the Rarden turret models were produced.

No, the Peak Engineering turret was widespread throughout BAOR. Only six standard FV-432s were deployed to Berlin (two with each infantry battalion) and they appear to have been of the non-turreted variety.

As you say, twelve of the the FV-432/30s went to Berlin (I think there were 13 built?), with four going to each infantry battalion. I'm not sure how the six 432s were grouped and roled within each battalion, though anecdotes describe them being used as a battalion APC/fire support asset.

There was also one FV-432 HQ variant with the Brigade HQ and a single FV-434 ARV with the REME LAD.

I remember seeing 3RGJ with peak turrets while on 43 driving course but that is 1985/6 IIRC. The rarden ones ended up in Berlin coz no one could work out what to do with them especially as Recce platoons had scimitar by then.

The Brigade HQ variants were standard 43s to start with with the CP frame and tent. Proper dedicated command variant came when Ptarmigan came in but even that was phased in. Mine was sent back for refurb to the new version as I left the unit in 1985

I agree that the version with the Peak MG turret was widely deployed throughout BAOR in the 80s although I don't know the distribution/proportions. There are quite few to be seen in various contemp photos and the Exercise Lionheart videos on Youtube etc.
The version with the Rarden 30mm turret was as you say Mako only a small experimental batch built in 1975-76. The original idea I think was to have a platoon of them per battalion as additional anti-armour/general fire support.
Though the Rarden was/is a pretty powerful weapon, I gather that the vehicle turned out to have a very high centre of gravity and consequent stability problems over rough terrain. Although it wasn't taken into mass production, the experimental ones were retained and sent to Berlin. Just a guess but I wonder if they were sent to Berlin (apart from just finding them a home…) because they would be more likely to operate on roads/flat ground there??

That makes sense, if they were unstable.

Plus, you want as much firepower as you can get, in city fights, and the 30mm cannons would certainly be useful there vs. light vehicles, and personnel hiding in buildings.

Incidentally, there are apparently a lot more than 13 FV-432/30s now, as vehicle restorers have been making them out of standard FV-432s and redundant Fox turrets! :)

True- and the Rarden could I'm told make a mess of most MBTs of day from side and rear- esp at the ranges likely found in a city.

I'm told that there were some T-55s sitting on Castlemartin range with frontal penetrations from 30mm Rarden APSE.

There is also at least one 432/30 fitted with a 40mm air gun for "tank vs tank" paintball games :)

Yep, the 30mm turret version was strictly Berlin Bde after starring in a few videos at Warminster.

The 30mm Raden was better than the A/T role than the 76mm.

Tally Ho!

Thanks for the gen Jemima et al.

Just one point to note – whilst the stability rationale for Berlin does make sense, I would point out that the Berlin garrison area did incorporate relatively large areas of heathland and woods, albeit flat as a tack. The British sector is the middle West slice:

Not forgetting that the bulk of the Soviets in Berlin were in Karlshorst about 5km SE of Oberbaumbrucke on the map. The WW2 museum there is/was well worth a visit and if one was lucky one could clamber up a wall and have a look into the adjacent barracks. The bulk of the fighting was expected to be in the urban areas with blocking actions on the major routes into the city.

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Tally Ho!