Editor in Chief Bill | 22 Sep 2015 10:45 a.m. PST |
Do you collect all the variants of the Sherman tank, or do you just field one or two of the most distinctive varieties? |
John Armatys | 22 Sep 2015 10:52 a.m. PST |
A Sherman is a Sherman unless it is a Firefly or Easy Eight. |
Timbo W | 22 Sep 2015 10:53 a.m. PST |
75mm, 76mm, 105mm or 17pdr are the only details that concern me! Though I guess I'd avoid the later boxy variants when doing Desert Shermans. |
Herkybird | 22 Sep 2015 10:53 a.m. PST |
Just the ones I think most appropriate for the forces I deploy! I am most definitely not an M4 collector! |
Garand | 22 Sep 2015 10:54 a.m. PST |
Yes, if I am doing a specific era or time I will collect the appropriate tanks for that time. Even if it costs more money (the modelling and painting aspect is a huge part of minis wargaming for me). Damon. |
Fatman | 22 Sep 2015 11:06 a.m. PST |
1960's to 1970's A Sherman is a Sherman and it's Airfix OO/HO. in the early Seventies we learned about 76mm and Fireflies and we added longer barrels from stretched sprue for the former and left over long barrels from Panzer IV kits built as F1's to make Fireflies. Life was simple but god it was fun. Fatman |
Dances with Clydesdales | 22 Sep 2015 11:09 a.m. PST |
Mainly by gun type and suspension type(VVSS and HVSS). |
Disco Joe | 22 Sep 2015 11:09 a.m. PST |
I collect all of them. You never know when you might need them. |
miniMo | 22 Sep 2015 11:11 a.m. PST |
I build specific models for specific units, more tanky modelling fun! |
John the OFM | 22 Sep 2015 11:18 a.m. PST |
A Sherman is a Sherman unless it is a Firefly or Easy Eight. Or a Jumbo. |
Extra Crispy | 22 Sep 2015 11:21 a.m. PST |
I do not collect every little variant of ANY tank. So my PzIV comes with a long gun or a short gun. I'll use any PzIV in place of another. I won't use a PzIII as a PzIV but a Panther G as a Panther A? Sure. |
Gaz0045 | 22 Sep 2015 12:04 p.m. PST |
Sherman 75 's and Fireflies……..the 75's do duty as required! |
Weasel | 22 Sep 2015 12:50 p.m. PST |
I use them interchangeably :) |
Bunkermeister | 22 Sep 2015 12:52 p.m. PST |
I build my armies in HO 1/87 scale. Paul Heiser models makes over 30 different variations of Sherman tank and I have most of them. I don't "do" British so I generally don't get specifically British models. I do use American and Soviet models, including American versions that did not see combat. Mike Bunkermeister Creek Bunker Talk blog |
boy wundyr x | 22 Sep 2015 1:02 p.m. PST |
I do in 6mm, I think there's maybe one I've skipped on as it had no significant difference, but otherwise I have 75s, 76s, Jumbos, Fireflies, E8s, DDs, Lend-Lease, Russian Lend-Lease, and British desert. Jeez, that looks bad now that I've written it down… |
15mm and 28mm Fanatik | 22 Sep 2015 2:30 p.m. PST |
I'm not a rivet counting treadhead, but I do own 19 Shermans in various forms all in 1/48. For the Americans I have: 6 × M4A1/75 5 × M4A1/76 1 × M4A3/105 1 × M4A3E8/76 For the British: 4 × Shermans (can be I's or III's) 1 × Firefly IC 1 × Firefly VC The British Shermans have angled welded hulls and extra rear turret bins as well as British markings of course. I wanted both Firefly variants due to their distinctiveness. While the M4A1's were replaced by M4A3's by late '44, I prefer the rounded cast hull and didn't feel the need to buy M4A3's. |
Cardinal Hawkwood | 22 Sep 2015 3:35 p.m. PST |
there are infact three fireflyvariants if you go on hull shape. |
Cardinal Hawkwood | 22 Sep 2015 3:36 p.m. PST |
The sherman 1 and III have distinctively different engine decks |
wrgmr1 | 22 Sep 2015 4:26 p.m. PST |
I try to keep British variants separate from U.S. ones, otherwise a Sherman is a Sherman. |
Winston Smith | 22 Sep 2015 5:22 p.m. PST |
Unfortunately sometimes you can have as many variants in your platoon as tanks. You need some way to tell them apart. |
Mark 1 | 22 Sep 2015 5:34 p.m. PST |
I have 1 company of early production M4a1 75mm Shermans with the M34 mantlet for Tunisia to Sicily. I have 1 company of mid production M4 75mm Shermans with M34A1 mantlet for Sicily to ETO. I have 1 company of late production M4A3 75mm Shermans with M34A1 mantlet and cupola for ETO. I have 1 platoon of M4A3E2 Jumbo 75mm to supplement my ETO force. I have 1 platoon of M4A1 VVS 76mm Shermans to supplement my ETO force. I have 1 platoon of M4A3 105mm Shermans to supplement my ETO force.
With this combination, and with a company of M3A1 Lee Mediums, and companies of M3A1 or M5 / M5A1 Stuart tanks, I can build a combat-ready / combat-weary US Armored Battalion for just about any WW2 occasion from Tunisia through the march on the Rhineland. … a Sherman is a Sherman. NO NO No No no no nononono … It is blasphemy, BLASPHEMY I say! There can be only one response !!!
I mean really. Next thing you know we'll have people saying they only need one version of KV heavy tanks! For me it is not so much a question of whether I collect Shermans, but rather whether Shermans collect me!
Mk 1 in a Sherman Jumbo*
Mk 1 researching wet ammo stowage in a Sherman 76mm
Ah, the beauty of a mid-late production M4A1 75mm Sherman (with M34A1 mantlet, add-on armor plates, but a late production cupola, such an ODD combination!) *Note: Yes, for those with an eye for the details, you can see an M60a2 "Starship" and the prototype MBT-70 in the background of that pic, and yet I chose to climb into the Sherman Jumbo! More Shermans? Yes please! -Mark (aka: Mk 1) |
bsrlee | 22 Sep 2015 5:36 p.m. PST |
For US forces, by gun – vanilla 75, 76 and 105. Not enough rivets to be bothered counting them. |
Pedrobear | 22 Sep 2015 8:55 p.m. PST |
I wanted to build and paint a Sherman for a friend's Chain of Command US forces for Normandy and after. We only need one, since he is unlikely to be able to field more than one Sherman in a typical game. Easy, right? Not being a WW2 buff, I googled around to try to make sense of all the variants to try to identify the correct one to use (there was a thread or two on TMP on which version to use for Normandy). Once I decided which one to go for, I googled for reviews of the kits available… only to find that all the kits are considered inaccurate in one way or another (needs lifting rings, needs applique armour, etc.), such that if I were to buy a "correct" kit, I would still need a lot of time to make it "correct". I decided to just buy a pre-painted die-cast tank instead, but I made sure the markings were for a unit that was in Normandy and then France through Germany. From a wargaming point of view, I tend to fall with the "only the gun matters" crowd here. |
Cardinal Hawkwood | 22 Sep 2015 10:24 p.m. PST |
Well in US units the rule was compatible powerplants so you didn't get M4A3 in units equipped with M4 or M4A1. Thatis why they kept producing M4 when they actually knew the M4A3 to be the better vehichle to service and to run and with the 47 degree gacis greater survivability .They couldn't afford to cease production of the now inferior M4.That was , to rivet counters ,a glaring inaccuracy in Fury. incompatible power plants in the same unit.never happened in real life.. |
Cardinal Hawkwood | 22 Sep 2015 10:28 p.m. PST |
you can ,of course cut out a piece of cardboard and write "sherman" on it. |
Martin Rapier | 22 Sep 2015 11:14 p.m. PST |
A Sherman is a Sherman, although some have bigger guns than others. Some have different wheels. As noted above, the father of all Shermans is the Airfix one, painted green. None of this olive drab nonsense. |
UshCha | 22 Sep 2015 11:14 p.m. PST |
"A Sherman is a Sherman unless it is a Firefly or Easy Eight" This is UTTERLY JUST WRONG. There are Three Shermans. The one with a poor 75/76 mm gun, Firefly and 105 infantry support. A long tube on the 75/76 indicates a Firefly if desparate but now there is a 1/144 firefly and just a cut down gun for the 105 mm. EVERYBODY knows the DD tank ran on its tracks over the sea. The Canvas skirt was a propogands ploy. This must be right cause thats how my DD tanks get ashore. |
Mark 1 | 22 Sep 2015 11:17 p.m. PST |
… incompatible power plants in the same unit.never happened in real life.. Not so, oh wizened one. Incompatible power plants in the same unit. NOT SUPPOSED to happen in real life. But did. And fairly often. The first 76mm-gun armed Shermans were all M4A1s. They were rushed from UK to France after D-Day, and issued in dribs and drabs quickly and somewhat randomly, quite regardless of other Shermans in the unit. Since most units already ashore had M4s or M4A1s at the time most wound up in single power-plant formations. But later, in the Fall and Winter of 1944, the Sherman 76mm tanks coming in to ETO were almost all M4A3s. After the first 100 in the summer of 1944, subsequent M4A1 76mm Shermans almost all went to MTO. 76mm armed M4A3s in ETO and M4A1s in MTO were issued to Sherman units quite regardless of the engines those units already had. Sherman Jumbos were all M4A3s. Again these were issued in small quantities across existing units, mostly to independent tank battalions, quite regardless of the other Shermans in the unit. In the Fall and Winter of 1944 the attrition rate of Shermans were higher than had been anticipated. The supply of replacement Shermans in ETO was not adequate to replace combat losses. Contrary to German units, U.S. Army units did NOT expect to start operations under-strength, and so replacements had to be found. The British supplied some in reverse lend-lease. But the British never operated the M4A3, so all the Shermans they provided were M4s or M4A1s (they kept the M4A4s for themselves, since the U.S. Army didn't want any). In addition to this, many M4 and M4A1 equipped units came to appreciate the superior automotive performance of the M4A3, and started requesting them as replacements. All together, as supplies of replacement Shermans got scarce, the quantity of M4s and M4A1s available as replacements far outbalanced the M4A3s, and so some units got replacements with incompatible powerplants, like it or not. And … some units transitions from M4s to M4A3s. Whenever possible this was done in one unit-wide exchange of tanks. Sometimes, the exchanges were done at the company, rather than at the battalion (or division) level. So a battalion could very well operate one company of M4s or M4A1s with the odd couple of M4A3 76mms or Jumbos, as well as a second company of M4A3s. Or so I've read. Or been told. Wasn't there myself, so don't know if that's right or not. But that's what I've come to understand. -Mark (aka: Mk 1) |
Fred Cartwright | 23 Sep 2015 5:51 a.m. PST |
I'm not surprised they didn't want the M4A4. Worst tank engine ever made. I have seen pictures of US tank units with a mix of Sherman types, so it certainly happened. |
Tachikoma | 23 Sep 2015 6:34 a.m. PST |
Ah, the beauty of a mid-late production M4A1 75mm Sherman (with M34A1 mantlet, add-on armor plates, but a late production cupola, such an ODD combination!) Not to mention the early split transmission housing. |
Gunfreak | 23 Sep 2015 7:19 a.m. PST |
I have this one, with 75mm and 105mm guns
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Jemima Fawr | 23 Sep 2015 7:56 a.m. PST |
The US Army used the M4A4 in Burma as part of the US-Chinese 1st Provisional Tank Group. They also used the M3A3 Stuart (both of these presumably came from British/Indian stocks. The US Army in Europe also received a load of M4A4 (plus other types) when the British Army handed over 500+ replacements in 1945. Re using different types in the same unit; While the British (and friends) TRIED to keep Shermans all the same type within the same brigade, that carefully-laid plan was thrown awry first by the issue of Firefly in only one variant (M4A4 – later joined by M4 Hybrid). This was then further complicated by the issue of DD tanks in only two variants (M4A1 and M4A4), then by only one variant of 105mm CS Sherman (M4) and one variant of 76mm Sherman (M4A1)! Then add random battlefield replacements to taste… I found one squadron in Italy that had Sherman III 75mm tanks, Sherman Ic and Vc Fireflies, Sherman IIa 76mm tanks and a couple of Sherman Ib 105mm tanks! |
donlowry | 23 Sep 2015 8:45 a.m. PST |
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The Young Guard | 23 Sep 2015 2:54 p.m. PST |
I will be when I get round to it. I do this with panzer ivs. I have the g and h variants. No one else notices but I would know so it has to be right other wise the world will implode |
Cardinal Hawkwood | 23 Sep 2015 5:24 p.m. PST |
thanks I stand corrected back to reading more books. |
Lion in the Stars | 23 Sep 2015 5:57 p.m. PST |
I try to have era-appropriate Shermans. The few Shermans I have for the desert have sand skirts. Sherman DDs are DDs, and would see service with both Brits and 'Muricans. Otherwise, ETO post D-Day, it only matters what gun they have. And maybe Jumbos. |
kallman | 23 Sep 2015 8:22 p.m. PST |
Yes I collect different Shermans as well as other tanks for the period/section of the war they would be most common in. I have late ware M4A3 76s for the drive to Germany and my Normandy Shermans tend to be all classic M4A1s. |
Rudysnelson | 24 Sep 2015 8:58 a.m. PST |
For me it depends on scale. In 1/300 and 10mm, I get all variants. As the model gets lager, I do tend to allow for replicas. |
Silurian | 24 Sep 2015 1:41 p.m. PST |
I definitely try to get the correct Sherman. Love the enthusiasm MK1! |
Old Contemptibles | 25 Sep 2015 9:42 p.m. PST |
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