Marc the plastics fan | 22 Sep 2015 9:22 a.m. PST |
Looks like the voltigeurs wore tassled gaiters. But the pictures I have are unclear what colour these would have been. Some look black, some dark blue. Any thoughts please |
T Corret | 22 Sep 2015 8:37 p.m. PST |
Black would be my guess. Old Guard long gaiters were black for winter, white for dress, and gray occasionally. Young guard wore) black shaped to look like boots and probably had only the one pair. Blue would likely be a color printing error in some plate. |
Green Tiger | 23 Sep 2015 2:19 a.m. PST |
Well they are basically fake boots aren't they, so they are going to be black… |
Marc the plastics fan | 23 Sep 2015 5:08 a.m. PST |
Sorry. My bad. I meant the tassels and trim around the edge of the boot. The question was clear in my mind. But not in my fingers. What a muppet. So. Tassles etc. colours? Thanks |
SJDonovan | 23 Sep 2015 5:27 a.m. PST |
I haven't managed to find anything definitive on this but for what its worth a plate in Haythornthwaite/Chappell's 'Uniforms of the Retreat from Moscow' shows a Young Guard voltigeur with black tassels on black gaiters. |
Marc at work | 23 Sep 2015 5:42 a.m. PST |
Aah – that is the plate I am "seeing" as dark blue – artistic licence maybe. Black is easier to paint |
Widowson | 07 Oct 2015 1:27 p.m. PST |
I don't think any unit in the French Army had black tassles. Just sayin'. |
Marc at work | 09 Oct 2015 1:52 a.m. PST |
So what do you reckon – blue as per my interpetation, or have you seen a plate somewhere with more details? Help please… |
Marc at work | 09 Oct 2015 1:54 a.m. PST |
What about the picture on page 23 of Lilian and Fred (I know, i know, but it is at least a picture, and a lot of their stuff is ok-ish)? That picture shows a mid blue |
SJDonovan | 09 Oct 2015 9:20 a.m. PST |
I still haven't been able to find anything particularly useful about this but I am beginning to wonder whether Young Guard voltiguers actually wore tasseled, hussar boot-style gaiters at all. Hourtoulle/Jouineau's 'Borodino – The Moskova' shows full dress Imperial Guard voltiguers wearing below-the-knee, straight-topped, plain black gaiters with brass side buttons. |
Marc the plastics fan | 09 Oct 2015 4:13 p.m. PST |
I have seen both, and sometimes the voltigeurs are differentiated from the tirallieurs by the boots, with the tirallieurs having straight cut. |
SJDonovan | 10 Oct 2015 6:00 a.m. PST |
I found this on Wikipedia. It's a Knotel print of a porte-fanion of the voltiguers of the Young Guard.
So maybe yellow is a possibility? (Mind you it could also be gold – though I think that is unlikely) |
Marc the plastics fan | 10 Oct 2015 3:45 p.m. PST |
I don't recognise the shako decoration for a young guard. Looks more like a voltigeur of a light infantry regiment |
Brechtel198 | 11 Oct 2015 5:58 a.m. PST |
The shako plate is an eagle. The soldier pictured is the 1st Voltigeur Regiment (sometimes referred to as Voltigeurs-Chasseurs as they were of the 'corps' of Chasseurs of the Imperial Guard. This is a Herbert Knotel watercolor and is Plate 45 of the Imperial Guard section, page 290, of Volume II of the 2007 Greenhill edition of Napoleonic Uniforms by John Elting. French infantry enlisted men of the period did not wear boots. They wore shoes and gaiters, separate items of clothing and equipment. Infantry officer would usually wear boots, but could also wear shoes and gaiters. Infantry musicians, the hired gagistes, might wear boots, but the drummers and fifers wore shoes and gaiters. Drum majors, who were soldiers as were the drummers (fifers were usually, but not always, enfants de troupe). |
Widowson | 13 Oct 2015 1:31 p.m. PST |
The tassels have got to be either yellow or green. Or straight topped gaiters with no tassel. |
Marc at work | 15 Oct 2015 5:02 a.m. PST |
I have never seen YG with yellow lace chevrons – is that an NCO distinction? It definitely looks more like a line voltigeur. The tirralieurs I have seen with whote chevrons, but nothing for the guard voltigeurs. Is there any support for the Watercolour. And yellow cords – the pics I have show white cords, so again, is that an NCO distinction, or is this a pic of a line voltigeur? Sorry, I don't mean to be a prat by hounding on this, and at the end of the day I should probably just go for what looks cool, but I started off as I was amazed that I could not find more info on such key units, andit has grown from there. At this rate, I will be getting obsessional |
Brechtel198 | 15 Oct 2015 7:44 a.m. PST |
It would depend on which regiment of the Young Guard is concerned. And there ended up being quite a few-19 of each (tirailleurs and voltigeurs) in the Young Guard by 1814. And unless something else can be shown, I would suggest that Knotel is a reliable source. |
tvlamb | 15 Dec 2015 4:08 p.m. PST |
The guidon bearer (porte fanion) was an nco and the mixed yellow and green on the epaulets and shako cords are due to this. Normal epaulets would be green with yellow half moons, cords white or green. Knoetels print for 1810 shows white cords but straight topped short plain black gaiters with brass buttons. |
tvlamb | 15 Dec 2015 4:10 p.m. PST |
The gold chevron above the cuffs are sergeant's rank. |