"Vallejo surface primer adhesion problems" Topic

I have been airbrushing vallejo surface primer. It goes on beautifully, leaving a thin even coating. But it is not sticking to the metal. Plastic seems ok but haven't experimented much.

Looking for ideas and feedback.

I wash figures in regular dish soap with toothbrush and rinse. I saw a recommendation to use a stronger detergent (dish washer) but haven't experimented.

I got some rustoleum self-etching spray primer and am trying that out, but I would rather not go back to spray cans now I have an airbrush – not going to get that thin coating. Don't know if it is possible to get a small can of this or similar primer.

The rustoleum is a green-grey colour – it is not a bad colour at all, but I am a prime white guy. I did put some white surface primer over the grey, but haven't experimented with rubbing it off yet.

Thanks for any suggestions

John

Just two suggestions as part of your ongoing experiments.

1/ don't use hard soap in case you are leaving soap residue. I use a small amount of detergent in a half filled bowl of hot water and then just clean with a toothbrush, afterwards everything gets a cold water rinse.

2/ try to brush the primer on a figure and see if that makes a difference (i.e. thickness of application).

I find that when brushed onto metal, it mostly covers and sticks, but I inevitably get a few 'thin' or even bare patches and a very fast second application specifically to those parts gives full coverage.

the only problem I have ever had with the primer sticking is to polythene 1/72 figures (i.e soft plastic).

I am about to start something similar (the Vallejo primer is being bought by my son – he arrives for a visit in a few days). However, after similar experience with army painter spray primers not sticking I plan to use a two step priming process:
1. Spray with rustoleum etch primer. This stuff sticks like glue!
2. Overspray with the Vallejo surface primer. This is not only a primer, but also my base coat.
3. paint details etc.

I'm a bit concerned that you aren't getting a thin coating with the rustoleum spray primer -- you may want to increase the distance from spray can to model, and make two attempts at a light spray to ensure coverage.

I've had similar experiences with vallejo and AK primer, though mostly with resin models. Did an experiment using ab primers, gw skull white and PSC army spray on three identical resin models and three identical metal models. Both the ab primer (was valejo) and PSC spray failed to stick, it would essentially flake off. The GW stuff did work.

This led me to believe the problem was the model and the release agents used to help remove them from moulds. Currently kicking the tyres on an ultrasonic cleaner to use for model prep.

McWong, why would an ultrasonic cleaner help? Would it get the mold release agent off?

Also, have you tried the Wattyl Etch Primer -- available in black or grey in spray cans from your local Wattyl store. I use it all the time and find it has no problems sticking.

Apparently it will. Or the interwebs have been lying to me again! On the phone so would otherwise link, but I've read that they're good at cleaning minis of release agents.

Sooo you would use an ultrasonic cleaner? just with plain water?

I gave up on Vallejo primer. Sounds like a lot of work for something that isn't that great, really, is it?

I've been using Alclad primer through the airbrush and it's awesome on everything.

I have stopped using dish soap to wash my figures. Soap, if it's left on inadvertently, acts as a surfactent. Most dishwasher detergents also have a finishing agent, which will make figures slick again. I have started cleaning my figures in 90% first aid grade rubbing alcohol in an ultrasonic cleaner. It has also become my preferred method of stripping figures as well.

Related question, I have read good things about Vallejo primer and want to try airbrushing it on some 28mmReaper Bones plastic figures. However I have also read it can be hard to clean out of your airbrush if you don't use the correct cleaner. Does anyone know if Aztek acrylic airbrush cleaner will work on Vallejo primer to clean an airbrush?

No issues cleaning from airbrush. I use rubbing alcohol and a little generic airbrush cleaner as final clean.

This is referring to surface primer. I have not tried priming bones yet.

I actually have some updates on the metal adhesion problems that I need to get around to putting together properly (short answer, use self-etching primer, I then do a layer of vallejo surface primer as it really is a nice primer)

John

Thanks for the info on cleaning the Vallejo primer out of my airbrush John.

Regarding using Vallejo as a primer for metal if I have to spray a solvent based (enamel or lacquer) primer on before the Vallejo primer I might as well just use a solvent based primer in the first place like Floquil, Tamiya, Army Painter, Krylon or auto primer and save time and money.

Brian

i have no pro lems with the primers from VA sticking to metals. Just give the mini a good soaking in warm water with detergent for 30 minutes minimum, scrub with a toothbrush, rinse off with clean water and let threm dry thoroughly. I usually pack them in paper towels and let them sit to dry for a day.
When priming with the airbrush, I use about 2 PSI of pressure and just dust them on my first pass so that the mini has a dusty appearance and then go back a minute or so later and build up the primer coating very gradualy with as little paint shooting through the brush as possible.
That way the primer bites into the surface gradually and bonds correctly with it. I never had a problem on any material with this method.
I only ever had a problem when I did not dust first and used too much primer.
The VA primers are fantastic IF you use them correctly.
Hope that helps.

@humsi

2PSI – I will try that – not a typo for 20 ? I can't find a recommended pressure on the Vallejo website

I think presure too high has been one of my issues – I just got a better regulator so will experiment

I did manage to get the self-etch primer to work well in the end

Thanks

John

Yep you are right 20 PSI or about 1.5 bar is what I use. I dont thin it down but use it neat straight out of the bottle after a hell of a shake.
Try to use a very small primer flow th
Rough you AB, that will help.
If you can, let the primed minis cure for 24+ hours. The primer becpmes very hard and durabe.

Never had a problem with Vallejo primers, just build gradually the coats, as suggested, and let it cure for 24 hours before applying other paint. Also i have taken the habit of cleaning the figures in a home made degreaser made with vinegar and baking soda instead of using soap: non toxic, cheap, easily rinsed off….