"Fireworks Effects" Topic
8 Posts
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Editor in Chief Bill | 02 Sep 2015 4:14 p.m. PST |
In Ancient gaming, firework effect is the tendency of units to break off from battle individually, resulting in disorganized battles with fleeing and pursuing units on both sides. Does this bother you? |
evilgong | 02 Sep 2015 4:22 p.m. PST |
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Dye4minis | 02 Sep 2015 4:35 p.m. PST |
No. Seems like that's the way it was……When "units" engage in hand-to-hand (ancients we are discussing) and the leadership gets killed, who is going to stop the rank and file from running? When the enemy runs away, it's better to run them down now than have to face them again tomorrow…. I find it interesting that a system may require pursuit of a broken enemy on the field! I think that's kinda cool and could result in the pursuing unit's demise as well. Gee, maybe some historical tactics creeping in?….. |
Yellow Admiral | 02 Sep 2015 7:59 p.m. PST |
It doesn't bother me at all. History is full of examples of "units" breaking off or pursuing individually. Whether I think the rules I'm playing get it exactly right, I understand what the author is trying for and I agree there needs to be some sort of partial rout or partial pursuit on ancient and Medieval battlefields. How is it I've been playing ancients for decades and I've never heard the term firework effect before? Google doesn't find *any* examples of it on TMP. Where did you encounter that? I would be very interested in the discussion(s) it came from. - Ix |
advocate | 03 Sep 2015 1:53 a.m. PST |
Why is this specific to Ancient gaming? It certainly happens in other periods. |
Caliban | 03 Sep 2015 2:23 a.m. PST |
No worries here either – after combat. In massed battles, though, units shouldn't be able to run about too easily on their own because command control should be relatively limited. There's a reason many armies thought, deployed and fought as coherent lines and groups. I first heard of the 'firework effect' with WRG 6th edition, where there were morale penalties for units being on their own, but no structural/organisational penalty, if that makes any sense. This is why horse archer armies are notoriously difficult to model on the tabletop… |
Old Contemptibles | 04 Sep 2015 2:55 a.m. PST |
units to break off from battle individually Do you mean in a skirmish game were the figures are based individually (one figure per base) ? or Do you mean individual units breaking off as in a four base unit of three figures per base runs away? or Do you mean individual figures, as in one person decides to run away from the parent unit, as in a four base unit with three figs per base and one guy on one of the bases decides to run? |
Elenderil | 04 Sep 2015 6:11 a.m. PST |
At least as late as 17th Century battles in the English Civil War there are examples of units breaking off from close combat for a "breather". Command and control was not noticeably more effective by that time then it was in the Ancient world. So we can be sure that units would break off from melee combat the issue is what did they then do, run, regroup, stand off and shoot? And what was the reaction from the other side did they pursue, push up to contact again or also stand off and shoot? To my mind all of these options are at least possible, which one actually happens is the issue. Better trained or motivated troops are more likely to want to close up if it appears that they have the upper hand, less well motivated but feeling good about things might stay in combat but with missile weapons and troops whose heart isn't in it any more are going to try to avoid any further casualties. To me that suggests that different units can and would react in different ways at different points of the battle line all at the same time – your fireworks effect. This though is going to be magnified by cascade failures of morale rippling out from the point where a unit breaks and runs so that there are area s of the line where groups of units are giving ground this limits the fireworks effect by tying outcomes together. All we have to do is find a way to recreate that on the table top! |
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