"Mamluks ca 1500" Topic

1. Does anyone make figures for these guys in 28mm?

2. I gather from my armies of the middle ages that the armored cav had very similar looks as Ottoman. I'm wondering how distinctive the two are, and if not much, how they told each other apart in the heat of battle.

Banners mostly. I am sure that in battle with similarly clad enemies, some temporary insignia was chosen. This was common everywhere. Probably so common that it hardly gets noticed.

Nobody looked more alike than medieval knights duking it out. I remember one anecdote from the battle of the Standard (1138), where the Scots cavalry got behind the English battle line, realized that the Scots had lost the battle, and mixed in with the English cavalry, slowly wending their way to their own side and off the field. Iirc, they removed "badges" first, so that their identity as Scots chivalry would not be detected.

I don't believe that there was any significant difference in appearances for ME Muslim armies either….

Old Glory has Egyptian Mameluks in their Turkish range, armored and unarmored packs. Beduins from the same range will work for Mameluk army also.

Agree with Great War Ace. There could be some minor clothing differences between Asia Minor and North Africa/Arabia. North Africans tended to wear longer coats and have their face covered. It's possible that turban wrappigs may had been slighly different. Overall it didn't make much difference in dust of the battle.

Important Mamluks wore different turbans, see Ottomans besieging revolting Mamluks in Damascus Selīm-nāma, MS. Hazine 1597-8 c.1521-24
Ordinary Mamluks wore a red zamṭ (The pilgrimage of the Knight Arnold von Harff)

see also a Mameluke Officer & servant in woodcuts of The pilgrimage of the Knight Arnold von Harff 1496 to 1499
Mamluk training with a lance, furusiyya manuscript, c. 1500
'The reception of Ambassador Domenico Trevisiano at Damascus' painting by Gentille Bellini school, 1511
Sultans with Horns: The Political Significance of Headgear in the Mamluk Empire by Albrecht Fuess

Druzhina
Egyptian Illustrations of Ottoman Costume & Soldiers

Thanks all. @IGW – the OG mameluks are in the later range, post 1690. I can't see from the pics – are they all carrying firearms? I don't suppose you have any painted up so I could see a decent pic?

I don't have them painted. OG figures come with firearms or swords hand attachments so you can build them the way you want. I have a picture of their Beduins, I think, painted, mixed with light cavalry from their Crusades range.

How much did turbans play a part in military gear? I can see turbans in civilian dress being nuanced. But nobody was going to wear an impractical turban over his helmet. So I'm guessing that turban colors alone probably figured into visual differences when dressed for battle….

@druzina – that's an interesting painting. I find it odd that Qa'it Bay would be using something that looks like a powder horn on his flag in the 15th century. Are you sure that's what it is?

Horse size?

How much did turbans play a part in military gear? I can see turbans in civilian dress being nuanced. But nobody was going to wear an impractical turban over his helmet. So I'm guessing that turban colors alone probably figured into visual differences when dressed for battle….

As most of the contemporary illustrations have Mamluks c.1500 in turbans or zamt, what is the evidence that they all wore helmets in battle?

"Finally it became such a common and distinctive marker for an ordinary Mamluk soldier that the Ottomans pursued everyone wearing a red zamṭ on his head when they conquered Cairo, rightly thinking that only members of the Mamluk military elite would wear such a headgear." Fuess.

The Kitab al-makhzun li arbab al-funun by al-tarabulusi, a manual of military practice and horsemanship, 1578-1579, shows most mamluk soldiers in zamṭ or turban.

@druzina – that's an interesting painting. I find it odd that Qa'it Bay would be using something that looks like a powder horn on his flag in the 15th century. Are you sure that's what it is?

To which painting are you referring?

Druzhina
Illustrations of Costume & Soldiers

The reception of the ambassador. This one:
link

Qantara have "The emblems depicted – a cup and two gunpowder vessels – belonged to the sultan Qâ'it Bay". The Mamluks did adopt gunpowder early (even though it may not been liked by some), so it is not unlikely.

The Louvre has "Les médaillons décorant les murs sont frappés du blason de Qâ'it Bay, sultan d'Égypte et de Syrie."

Druzhina
16th Century Illustrations of Costume & Soldiers

Thanks for that.

I guess one will have to use Ottoman armored cav until someone comes up with something better. There are some distinctive looking helmets in the armies of the middle ages book – maybe some of that could be worked up with green stuff…..

Their armour might not be apparent if worn under robes, with the exception of vambraces if worn.

George Gush has:

The Mamelukes were armed and equipped like the Turkish and Persian heavy cavalry, though according to Oman given to wearing very large turbans (decorated with ostrich plumes for the leaders) in place of helmets. Their mail was often converted into a sort of brigantine by the addition of rich cloth coverings inside and out.

There are many Mamluk, Ottoman & Persian cavalry with no apparent armour in Selīm-nāma, by Şūkrī-i Bitlisī, MS. Hazine 1597-8 c.1521-24, even though some appear to have armoured horses.

Druzhina
Persian Illustrations of Costume & Soldiers