"Battle of Gaines Mill 1862 - Help wanted." Topic

Hi everyone,

I'm putting together a Gaines Mill Scenario for our group and although I have got some good info on orbats / arrival times / troop classes etc I have some questions on battlefield layout if someone with a good local knowledge could help.

1) Woods – How far did they extend along creek, some maps show coverage all the way to the Garthwright house others specifically the Civil War trust only shows them upto the crossing of the creek where the 1st US Sharpshooters were deployed. Also how dense were the woods ?

2) Lines of sight – Maps show Union Art deployed on Turkey Hill and around Mcgehee and Confederate around New Cold Harbour and the Telegraph Road. What could they see ? Had they been sighted here to cover exits to the woods on their respective sides, for indirect fire or could they see across the creek to their opponents ?

A bit technical I know but any help would be appreciated, I will even say how Ace you are in my blog post of the battle, can't say fairer than that !

Regards, Ken
yarkshiregamer.blogspot.co.uk

The Civil War Trust website has detailed maps that might help in that regard:

link

Hi,

Thanks McLaddie but I have those maps as mentioned in my post above.

They are great for troop depositions etc but its that map which causes the woods problem above and doesn't answer my second question either.

Regards, Ken
yarkshiregamer.blogspot.co.uk

I have no local knowledge, but I converted a scenario for Guns at Gettysburg in the Partizan Press scenario book "On To Richmond" that covers the area described in your post. So I was considering the same questions.

My other research source was the The Great Eastern Battles scenario book for Fire and Fury.

The map for the Guns at Gettysburg scenario shows woods extending north and south of Boatswain's Creek for between 4 and 12 inches (Guns at Gettysburg's ground scale is approx. 1 inch = 25 yards).

The scenario rates the woods as dense enough to restrict line of sight (Artillery cannot engage targets beyond half range) and to slow movement to half, including the creek. It also rates the Union side of the creek as Broken ground, slowing movement to two-thirds of normal.

The Great Eastern Battles scenario book rates Boatswains Creek as a flooded stream, which prohibits artillery from crossing except at a road crossing, and slows other units (they pay the movement penalty for fording). On that map, the woods seem to extend 3 or 4 inches either side of Boatswains Creek along its entire length on a scale of 1 inch equals 60 yards)

My humble and semi-informed take on it was that the creek was the significant obstacle instead of the woods. For Longstreet I rated Boatswains' Creek counts as Swamp along its entire length, and this area extends 2" either side of its track. It is difficult terrain for infantry and impassable to artillery. For the Woods I stated they were light and for decoration only, not obstructing fire or movement.

Hope this helps.

I've walked the ground and, if we take the National Park Service at their word and the woods today are similar to then, I would consider the woods to be quite dense with visibility on the order of 30-50 yards. The real obstacle is the creek which is not deep but at the bottom of a steep ravine. Crossing it in any sort or order would have been impossible.

How do the CW Trust maps cause problems with the woods? I would imagine that the woods extend to just where the map shows. The Trust tries to use contemporary accounts to determine such things as the extent of woods etc. in the area did and do change rapidly at times. Rich covered the density. From what I remember, the woods in the area are dense…lots of underbrush, vines etc.

McLaddie,

Here are the pics and hopefully now you can see where the confusion lies. I know the trust do excellent stuff but theirs and only their map stops the woods by the road to the Adams House. Everything else I can find has woods along the whole length of the creek.

Thanks everyone else for the detailed responses, I'm just trying to understand now why so much Confederate Artillery would depoly if they couldn't see anything.

Regards, Ken
yarkshiregamer.blogspot.co.uk

As I remember, the woods do stop at about the point the creek bends east. The Union artillery south of the Adams house could definitely sight troops across the Powhite creek

Well, I can suggest a couple of ideas:

1. Which 'official map' are we talking about here in regards to the topography? Confederate or Union? When and where was it created? Like histories, it is important. It says:

(The topography from the official map.) [June 27, 1862].
Wells, Jacob. [S.l., 1885]

Does that mean the map was created in 1862 ro 1885?

Then it says:

Scale ca. 1:33,000.
Reference: LC Civil War Maps (2nd ed.), 558 Which means?
From Century illustrated monthly magazine, v. 30, June 1885. p. 317.
Indicates names of commanders, roads, relief by hachures, houses, names of a few residents, drainage, and vegetation. Description derived from published bibliography.

So, where does the information come from? Like derivative histories, maps can be copied over and over again until no one really knows the original source. That might be why so many maps look the same rather than being the 'right' representation.

OR

2. Considering the serious difference between the Trust map and the one you show about, it could be
A. The Trust map is showing the terrain as it appears today.
B. They have better information which led them to portray the woods ending at the Adam House road. You might want to contact the Trust and Stanley Stevens.
C. The Trust screwed up.

To answer those questions will require some research and phone calls.

Hi,

The initial map above showing the woods covering the length of the creek is just an example of the many showing that layout, the Trust map is the only one which doesn't.

I was hoping we might have someone with local or intimate knowledge of the battlefield who could help. Sadly I live in Yorkshire UK so I can't pop down to Gaines Mill in the same way I can to say Marston Moor which I pass through at least once a week.

Re the Artillery question I have been doing some background reading suggesting that the Confederate guns firing shell across to McGehee and the Union guns there so that would suggest a degree of visiblity across the creek from the higher ground.

I will try and contact the trust via email see if they can assist further, any help in the meanwhile by the readers of TMP would be great.

Regards, Ken
yarkshiregamer.blogspot.co.uk

Ken: I would suggest contacting Robert E.L. Krick at the Richmond National Battlefield Park. He is very knowledgeable on this battle and I think was in the process of writing a very detailed book about the fight. In any case, he knows the battlefield well and leads tours there. If there is someone who knows, he will.

The park also has a facebook page

Howdy,

Another point of view, Union map from 1862 in the Library of Congress.

loc.gov/resource/g3882t.cw0475000

We wargamers are not the only ones who seem to leave details of terrain features off our maps.

Ponder on,

JAS

Howdy,

No matter what choice you make with regard the terrain, it may not be accurate. For example, with respect to the CWT maps:

BG Lawton pushed his Georgia brigade through dense woods at Gaines Mill. The brigade managed to penetrate the woods and more or less retain cohesion, "the regiments occasionally disunited by the smoke, dust, and confusion of the battle-field, and then brought together again." This excerpt from Earl Hess's book on ACW Infantry Tactics, page 89. Interestingly, no mention of the creek.

So apparently there were woods where the CWT maps shows none.

Ponder on,

JAS

Ken,
As you mentioned the concentration of artillery on the east side of the battlefield strongly suggest that if there were woods that it did not have a great impact on visibility and artillery effectiveness in that section. That does not mean no woods or that movement could still be impacted just that visibility and fire were not as much.