"AOE for Battalions" Topic

Does anybody know of a battalion unit scale variant for Age of Eagles?

Nope- does not make sense to go that route.
Use the 1812 or South American liberation variants made for Regimental FnF.
Can find info on the yahoo group for FnF

MG

Nothing says you can not simply use the rules and just play the brigades as battalions.

Not sure if that would work using historical scenarios. I would imagine there would be issues with ground scale doing as if the brigades were battalions.

I thought that since RF&F was based on F&F then there might be a battalion game based on AOE.

Maybe you could use Fire and Fury Regimental as a guide to how you might go about it for Napoleonics?

Yeah thought of that. My club plays AOE and it would be nice if we could use the same mechanics and basing to do battalions. Never played RF&F. I do have the rules and have not read them cover to cover, but read enough. I have heard the rap on those rules is that the units are really big and you need a lot of figures to use them when compared to other regimental rules.

Look for "Suvorov in the Alps" an RFF Napoleonic variant by Tom Garnett. I think I purchased it from On Military Matters. It covers the Revolutionary Period.

QRS can be found here. PDF link

I am a big fan of RFF and use it for 6mm ACW. I use AOE for Napoleonics in 15. But will likely give it a shot for 28mm Napoleonics. Note – RFF base sizes are different.

Thanks GF I will check that out. I wonder if it would work if all bases are the same size, meaning based for AOE/NB.

Forgot to mention that we will be using 15mm figures for this.

First look at what the musket range is versus the width of a battalion in line. IF that is screwed up, then everything else is going to be out of kilter. Why not go to a set of rules made for the right scale?

Never considered the width of a battalion in line v.s. musket range. So 900 men in a three deep rank, each man takes up about a pace (28 inches)would be 300 paces long. The man at one end would not be able to hit a man at the other end with a smooth bore musket. Why is this important? Just asking. Am I missing something?

It's a scale and doctrine thing ;-)

AoE standard infantry base is 0.75" wide x 1" deep. The depth is OK for brigade scale (120 yards) but a massive problem for battalion scale. However, if you are prepared to ignore the battalion scale depth distortion you simply need to select the man:figure scale and work from there.

For example, say you want 1:15. One AoE base would represent 60 men, so two bases might represent a French company/platoon. Assuming normal frontages the two bases totally 1.5" wide would actually represent approximately 21 yards and 1" would represent approximately 14 yards. Since the standard AoE ground scale is 1":120 yards the battalion scale multiplier is 120/14 = 8.57.

Assuming you kept the same time scale (one move representing 30 minutes) some direct conversions from standard AoE might be:
Infantry movement 77"
Cavalry movement 103"
Musketry range 17"
Artillery range 154"

Alternatively, you might want to reduce the time scale to some proportion of 30 minutes, in which you would simply pro rata the movement appropriately.

So far so straightforward.

You then hit problems, some of which are:
1. Maneuver mechanics are based on brigades not battalions.
2. Close combat is based upon 30 minutes duration.
3. Firepower effects are based upon 30 minutes duration.

It would be an interesting exercise to carry out a conversion, but fundamentally AoE is geared up to cut through the complications of battalion level maneuver and combat. You may well be able to carry out a retrofitting exercise from brigade level to battalion level, but I suspect you would simply be kidding yourself that you were 'representing' Napoleonic warfare at battalion level, just as folks who play Black Powder or General of Brigade do ;-)

Allan

davbenbak Supporting Member of TMP 29 Aug 2015 7:20 a.m. PST

Never considered the width of a battalion in line v.s. musket range. So 900 men in a three deep rank, each man takes up about a pace (28 inches)would be 300 paces long. The man at one end would not be able to hit a man at the other end with a smooth bore musket. Why is this important? Just asking. Am I missing something?

The smoothbore musket was only effective (even in massed fire) out to 75 yards or so. At 150 yards it was quite ineffective and was just making noise and smoke.

What is seen in many rules is the following. A battalion in line has a zone of smoothbore musket fire that extends out for 600 yards or so- it is 4x or so more then the range of the actual modestly effect fire. For example, a 1.5" wide brigade of 6 battalions (6x 150 yards) might fire out to 8", whereas if properly scale, it should only fire to 1/4". What then happens is that the "game" becomes just a "game" and no where like a representation of the elements of Napoleonic warfare. Movement, charge distances, zones of control and such become completely distorted and although a "Napoleonic feel" is attempted by labeling game mechanics with glitzy terms, you shouldn't expect to reproduce historical practices that your read from period studies or stories. Actually if you check over most rule sets that are on the corp or army scale, you will find out that what you have is a "bathtubbing", with divisions or brigades acting somewhat like actual battalions or platoons.

The smoothbore musket was only effective (even in massed fire) out to 75 yards or so. At 150 yards it was quite ineffective and was just making noise and smoke.

And yet there are numerous reports of skirmishers with smoothbore muskets as well as formed troops firing at 150 yards or even longer ranges. Certainly officers would go for maximum effect by holding fire until close range. Even Clauswitz saw the effective range of the musket as 150 yards. It all has to do with what officers of the time termed effective'.

Having said that, trying to shoehorn the AOE system into something that will adequately mimic battalion-level combat is pushing the system beyond the breaking point.

You'd be better off starting from the ground up or playing General de Brigade.

GoonerFrog – I've played those rules and they are a lot of fun. We played it using 28 mm figures.