"Building an awesome field for your wargaming table" Topic

Hi guys,

On behalf of one of our international contributors, allow me to present to you an extremely detailed field construction tutorial, chock full of pictures and explanations.

Link:

link

The field as it stands finished:

Pictures just don't do it justice! :)

very nice and a fine looking tutorial.

Nicely done! Thanks for sharing.

Very nice. The combination of dry stone wall and wooden fencing looks a bit odd though. It should be one or the other but not both.

Very nice!

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Excellent Work!

Nice looking thing, although I agree with Major B re the fence/wall combination. Seems more of a diorama piece to me- my 20mm GIs would stand on top of that wheat!

It should be one or the other but not both

That's a very sweeping statement, Major…! Maybe it's not usual but it is certainly possible and I can envisage several circumstances where it may be the best option for a farmer.

It looks lovely as well – well done to the creator.

DBDD

That's a very sweeping statement, Major…! Maybe it's not usual but it is certainly possible and I can envisage several circumstances where it may be the best option for a farmer.

A landowner will build dry stone walls for one reason – there is no timber available to build fences. Wherever timber is available, it is far easier (and cheaper) to build a fence than construct a dry stone wall. Having a mixture of the two on a single field boundary is therefore pretty unlikely.

A very nice field. Well done! The tutorial is excellent. Thanks for taking the time to share your ideas.

P.S. I think your stone work is fine…intended to break up the monotony of a continuous wood fence.

A landowner will build dry stone walls for one reason – there is no timber available to build fences. Wherever timber is available, it is far easier (and cheaper) to build a fence than construct a dry stone wall. Having a mixture of the two on a single field boundary is therefore pretty unlikely.

Well, "pretty unlikely" is an improvement over "should".

Dry stone walls are built because of availability of stones rather than wood – true. But over the decades or even centuries, the availability changes. Instead of wood being a scarce resource, it can now be had from B&Q only 10 miles away. So, as the dry stone walls decay and the skills to repair them become more rare and thus expensive, the farmer pops down the road and gets some wood to patch up the gaps. Eventually, the patching becomes greater than the original resulting in what we see in this model.

DBDD.

My favorite comment so far:

I can see this is clearly your contributor's field of expertise…

But over the decades or even centuries, the availability changes. Instead of wood being a scarce resource, it can now be had from B&Q only 10 miles away. So, as the dry stone walls decay and the skills to repair them become more rare and thus expensive, the farmer pops down the road and gets some wood to patch up the gaps. Eventually, the patching becomes greater than the original resulting in what we see in this model.

What you say is true and that would be fine if the model was going to be used for battles set in the present day. However the article said it was intended for Bolt Action, which I believe is World War II? Such mixed field boundaries would be much more unlikely in the 1940s than in the 2010s for the reasons you give.

The other reason to build stone walls is as somewhere to put the stones you have spent decades picking out of your field ….

It's lovely.

Walls? Fences? Most of the games I see on a club night struggle to use more than brillo pad hedges or (occasionally broken) lengths of resin wall.

Or bits of cardboard…

It's still lovely: Ars grātiā artis

John T

Very nice.

I would only use old rocks for mixed boundary. I would never use new rocks.

Nice work! As for the different fence material, here's the back story. A tree fall on the fence. The owner didn't know how to rebuild the fence but had some rocks to pile up and make a make-shift fence.

I like the way the bit of grass by the entrance is cut away and the tree in the corner, both things help naturalise the piece.

The other reason to build stone walls is as somewhere to put the stones you have spent decades picking out of your field ….

Those stones are not big enough for building dry stone walls.

Walls? Fences? Most of the games I see on a club night struggle to use more than brillo pad hedges or (occasionally broken) lengths of resin wall.

Or bits of cardboard…

It's still lovely:

It certainly is, allowing for a bit of artistic licence!!

I would only use old rocks for mixed boundary. I would never use new rocks.

How do you know how old the rocks are?

A tree fall on the fence. The owner didn't know how to rebuild the fence but had some rocks to pile up and make a make-shift fence.

That's just silly.

I like the way the bit of grass by the entrance is cut away and the tree in the corner, both things help naturalise the piece.

So do I. Lovely touches!

Those stones are not big enough for building dry stone walls.

I did imply the owner was not skilled.

The idea of the fenced in field – is this a UK thing or does it happen in France, too?

In my experience of visiting France you are far more likely to find hedges and ditches rather than fences and walls.

Those stones are not big enough for building dry stone walls.

I did imply the owner was not skilled.

Any farmer living in a "dry stone wall" area would have the skills to build one. You aren't going to call in a "dry stone wall building contractor".

What you say is true and that would be fine if the model was going to be used for battles set in the present day. However the article said it was intended for Bolt Action, which I believe is World War II? Such mixed field boundaries would be much more unlikely in the 1940s than in the 2010s for the reasons you give.

Actually, Bolt Action is used for various periods and genres so what you say is not a given.

Even if it were, 1940s France had timber merchants. My justification for the walls/fences is still valid.

DBDD

DBDD

Any farmer living in a "dry stone wall" area would have the skills to build one. You aren't going to call in a "dry stone wall building contractor"

Major B – you're certainly in a mood for sweeping generalisations on this topic. And of course, for some time now, a "dry-stone wall builder" is exactly what many farmers have to do.

DBDD

Actually, Bolt Action is used for various periods and genres so what you say is not a given.

Really? What other periods is it used for?

Even if it were, 1940s France had timber merchants. My justification for the walls/fences is still valid.

Yes they certainly did. What they didn't have though was any tradition of building dry stone walls.

And of course, for some time now, a "dry-stone wall builder" is exactly what many farmers have to do.

Pleased that you agree with me. However, the original point was that stones grubbbed up from a field are not suitable for building a dry stone wall. They are too rounded.

Really? What other periods is it used for?

VBCW for one – providing plenty of areas that fit my description.

Pleased that you agree with me.

Actually, I was disagreeing with you…

What they didn't have though was any tradition of building dry stone walls.

There you go again – sweeping generalisation. Actually they do in various parts of France.

DBDD

Being not able to view the tutorial due to being at work, I'm assuming that it covers the construction of both fences and walls and the image above is to demonstrate both of these features? In which case, as a single "show piece", historical or agricultural accuracy shouldn't really be an issue.

VBCW for one – providing plenty of areas that fit my description.

Which of course is set in the 1930s – so even earler than ww2. My prvious comment therefore still applies.

There you go again – sweeping generalisation. Actually they do in various parts of France.

In which parts of France?

I'm assuming that it covers the construction of both fences and walls and the image above is to demonstrate both of these features? In which case, as a single "show piece", historical or agricultural accuracy shouldn't really be an issue.

If what you say is true then I would agree with you. However the tutorial was presented that this was a piece designed for actual use rather than just as a demonstration of technique.

My prvious comment therefore still applies.

I's still wrong, assuming you mean that 1930s is too early for such a mixture to exist.

In which parts of France?

Without spending ages researching, I can offer you the Vosges and south of France to kick off with.

DBDD

It's still wrong, assuming you mean that 1930s is too early for such a mixture to exist.

I believe your original statement was:

But over the decades or even centuries, the availability changes. Instead of wood being a scarce resource, it can now be had from B&Q only 10 miles away. So, as the dry stone walls decay and the skills to repair them become more rare and thus expensive, the farmer pops down the road and gets some wood to patch up the gaps. Eventually, the patching becomes greater than the original resulting in what we see in this model.

Given that there is a dearth of B&Q's in France in the 30s and 40s, and that the whole reason for building dry stone walls in the first place (in the Vosges and the south of France say) was that timber was not easily available, just "popping down the road" to buy some would not be an option, particularly when there is plenty of suitable building material just lying around for the taking.

Fences are a lot easier to construct than dry stone walls. You only do the latter when you have to.

Also, a well built dry stone wall can easily last for hundreds of years, as evidence many many in the north of England, so the need for repairs using wood is unlikely to say the least.

Well, why not… I'm in the mood for popcorn…

You're not keeping up Major, I went on to point out that 1940s (and 1930s) France had timber merchants.

So, to some up. I'm saying that the configuration, whilst not being common or ideal is perfectly feasible – not something to be dismissed. You agree with me:

What you say is true and that would be fine if the model was going to be used for battles set in the present day

Since we've now shown that your other objection – that the period the rules are intended for wouldn't fit my criteria – is also fallacious since the rules can and are used for other games apart from WW2 and, in addition, this configuration could theoretically have existed in parts of France that were fought over, I believe I can now say "job done" and return to admiring the model.

DBDD

You're not keeping up Major, I went on to point out that 1940s (and 1930s) France had timber merchants.

On the contrary, you are not keeping up. Yes there were timber merchants in France in the 30s and 40s, but you clearly haven't understood the economics of field boundaries. Walls and fences are by definition loong. Therefore you construct them with the cheapest materials available. Is the farmer going to BUY timber (lots of timber) from a merchant or simply use what is to hand and freely available at no cost?

Secondly, you also seem to have missed my point about the longevity of dry stone walls, A properly constructed wall will last for hundreds of years, so the need to repair as you suggest is unlikely in the extreme. Stones don't rot (unlike timber) so even if the wall fell into disrepair, then the materials to repair it are close to hand , viz, the stones that have fallen out of place.

You agree with me:

Only IF the model is only meant to be a demonstration piece. I do not believe that to be the case. So no, I don't agree with you.

since the rules can and are used for other games apart from WW2

Your only other suggested period was VBCW, which, correct me if I am wrong, was not fought in France (bearing in mind that it is actually fantastical anyway). Also, to all intents and purposes from a technogical viewpoint it is effectively the same period as WW2. Yes, yes there are timber merchanrts in England too, but then we are back to the situation I described above.

and return to admiring the model.

As an example of the modellers art I have certainly admired it (see above).

You might be interested to know that (for example):
"Lower Winskill Farm, Langcliffe has over seven miles of dry-stone walls on his farm, some of which date back to the 13th century"
link

That's 700 years plus …

Or how about this:
" The oldest surviving dry stone walls (those built without the use of concrete or mortar) in Britain are to be found in Skara Brae in Orkney, Scotland.

These walls are thought to be about 3,500 years old. "
link

I'd be very interested to see any actual pictures of fields with mixed dry stone wall / fence boundaries …

I think it looks fantastic…and as I will be building some of these for my Warhammer Empire settlements, I think the mixture of stone walls and wooden fencing makes the piece all the more interesting.

I will say though I very much respect the debate going on about historical contexts. If I was building walled or fenced fields for Civil War or WWII gaming I would probably be pretty obsessive about getting the elements right too.

But for the purposes of fantasy, a mix of stone and wood adds character and narrative to the piece…who knows what battles might have swept over the land before, marching armies knocking down walls and trampling fences, leaving the local Empire farmer to rebuild with whatever happened to be at hand? I love the idea of the field's border evolving and changing as repairs and alterations were made over time.

I did find a few photos. I realize that these are not strictly one field bordered by using both stone and wood, but you'd certainly have wooden fences meeting stone walls at intersections between fields, with two sides being bordered by stone and two bordered by wooden fencing. These are modern farms and modern yards of course, but I would have to believe that over thousands of years this must have been done some of the time.

But for the purposes of fantasy, a mix of stone and wood adds character and narrative to the piece…

I understand the original piece was created for use with Bolt Action …

some people may well regard that as fantasy …

@MajorB

Well, if it was made specifically for Bolt Action then that could be a potential problem, no doubt of that. I'm just praising the piece for its detail and character in general.

But I'm right there with you about getting it right for historical games!

I don't know all that much about European landscape archaeology, but what if, after the stone wall had been constructed some centuries ago, a woodlot was since allowed to grow nearby, and said woodlot now provides timber which can be used for repairing the stone wall…?

@Skeptic,

That is my line of thinking as well. Especially after numerous wars and other kinds of damage, had to be walls that got blasted or scattered that the land owner fixed by putting up wooden fencing in combination with putting some of the stones back in place.

I'm going to dig into my archives of Civil War, WII and WWIi photo libraries and see if I can find anything like that.

MajorB is right though, finding an actual historical photo has proven tough.

Baycee:

Spectacular work. It has a lot of atmosphere to it.

On your blog there are several pictures and in some the field/rug material looks darker than the photo above. Did you little the material somehow or is that just the lighting?

@McLaddie: just the different light :)