"British tanks in Sicily" Topic

Did the British use Matilida, Valentine and Crusader tanks during the Sicily Battles?

I believe it was Shermans, some Shermans, and then for a break, Shermans. I'm pretty sure the Armd Regts were all on Shermans by July 1943 in the Med.

Maybe the odd Grant as a recovery vehicle.
,,,and more Shermans,,,

Yep, maybe an ARV of a different breed! One thing at least, no need to fathom 17-pr allocations or if you need 105-mm models, all you want are 75-mm gun tanks.

Concord has a good book on British tanks in Italy and Sicily.

Churchill's and M-3 Stuart's were also used. The Matilda and Crusader are gone and Valentine gun tank is also, although Bishop SPG's were in service.

Faman

Yep, only Sherman, with Stuart (mostly turretless) used in the Regimental Recce Troops and some Grants as HQ tanks and ARVs.

Churchill didn't appear until they reached Italy.

Arrgh just reread my source, no Churchills on Sicily. So Jemima is right again, no big suprise there. ;-)

Fatman

In my defence I was coming back to admit ny mistake before I saw Jemima's post.

What weapons were mounted on the turret-less Stuart? Just two machine-guns in AA mounts?

In most a single .50 but remember these were usually created in local workshops so could vary.

Fatman

Waits to be corrected by the better read. ;-)

Is it certain re Stuarts in Sicily, as they didn't get added to the Home WE until end of 1943? The British, Canadian and NZ WEs for the Armd Regt in the theatre in 1943 all show the Recce Tp with 10 carriers and 6 scout cars. There's an amendment to the NZ version dated Mar44 which changes the Recce Tp to 11 light tanks and 4 scout cars.

Grant command in Sicily;

that looks odd. There is no hull mounted 75mm gun and the turret gun looks too long and fat to be a 37mm- possibly a dummy?

1968

As an HQ command tank then no main gun [75mm removed to make space] and probably a dummy gun in turret to give it a Sherman look

The Bishop was a variant of the Valentine that served through the early stages of the campaign in Italy. link

The Bishop was a variant of the Valentine that served through the early stages of the campaign in Italy. link

The Matilda's career ended in the desert in 1942. There does not seem to be even an ARV variant of the tank. I suspect because it is too slow.

The Bishop of course is not a tank but a self-propelled gun, mounting a 25 pounder in a fixed superstructure.

You asked about British, but you could mix it up a bit and add the Canadians.

1st Canadian Armoured Brigade was driving….

Shermans.

The Bishop of course is not a tank but a self-propelled gun, mounting a 25 pounder in a fixed superstructure.

True. But he did ask about the Valentine. I have to stretch you know.

I`m fairly sure I`ve seen some pics of some MkIII Crusaders in use in Italy fairly early on.
I`ll post a link if I can find them again but you know how it is….

Crusader I-II-III link

Seems its career ended in Tunisia in 1943. There were some special tanks still in use beyond that date…ARVs and so forth.

Thought I'd seen something on Recce Tps and sawn-offs. It was on the Warlinks site,which doesn't appear to be around anymore? I found the cached page, and I'm not sure if this will link;

link

It refers to 6RTR in late 1943, and includes an undated letter from the CO saying he expected to get his sawn-off Honeys in line with the new WE. It's undated but if my notes are right 6RTR didn't go to Italy until May44 as part of 7th Armd Bde.

Can anyone tell if the Grant picture shows a Bde HQ vehicle? Tac signs are not my strongpoint, to the extent I'm not even sure if there are any visible on the tank. Bde HQ was authorised either 4 Grants and 4 Crusaders, or 4 Shermans and 4 Crusaders, but oddly not 4 Grants and 4 Shermans.

No ARVs listed on the Armd Regt WE, breakdown tractors instead, likewise for the Armd Bde Wksp, both for early 1943 in the Med.