"Euro Games As Inspiration" Topic

True or False: Miniature wargaming rules designers could learn a lot from studying Euro games.

What's a Euro Game?

A German-style board game, also referred to as a German game, Euro game, or Euro-style game, is any of a class of tabletop games that generally have simple rules, short to medium playing times, indirect player interaction and abstract physical components.

Yes. Some of the game mechanics they are coming up with are inspired.

Learn "a lot"? I'd have to go with false. Most Eurogame hallmarks aren't too compatible with wargaming, anyway. And I like ramdomness and hate deterministic combat.

Unless I-go/you-go is indirect interaction enough?

It would depend on the Euro-game, wouldn't it? There are a number of Euro-games taht are compatible with wargaming… both use game mechanics after all.

I would have to say no, simply because a typical euro game usually takes a very light approach to the subject, probably best described as being thematic rather than simulation.

Not a bad thing in itself, but wargamers who invest a lot of time and effort in their armies might want something that feels less generic.

Euro games are often three or more players and rely on a relationship that other players will try to not let one player get too powerful, so there is a smoothing out effect until end play determines a winner, whilst wargames, even if multi player is solely about two sides trying to get the the killer initiative from the outset.

Euro games are very pretty – our modern rule sets have caught up in that regard.

The board wargame industry lives more in the shadow of Eurogames because Eurogames enjoy superb production quality, so mounted boards rather than paper maps are the norm. There are some cross overs, such as Academy games bringing excellent component quality into board wargames and as a consequence, there are plenty euro-gamers that buy their product.

Volko Runkhe's COIN series for GMT is modelic as "euro-wargames". Despite the generic look of the games (units are just colored cubes) I haven't find yet any other system that models with the same accuracy the problems of modern counter-insurgency. That doesn't mean that COIN series are perfect simulations, but the overall result coincides with the current paradigm on counter-insurgency warfare (at least, Andean Abyss, A distant plain and Fire in the Lake).

I'd argue that all games can learn from all kinds of games. It doesn't have to be borrowing concepts wholeheartedly.

What can RPG's teach us about modelling individuals in combat?
What can a board game teach us about abstracting complex systems into quickly resolvable game mechanics?
What can a video game teach us about replayable content?
What can Collectible card games teach us about balancing highly divergent game abilities?

Break out of the comfort zone a bit and it's pretty good stuff :)

I've tried to introduce my pals to a few Euro boardgames, but they reject them. Not bloody enough. They want WOAH!

Good game designers have been doing that for over 15 years.

If you pretend to design games, you are better aware of the evolution in other gaming niches. Lots of the inovation in game design is happening in Eurogameland for the past two decades. Miniature wargaming looks like a conservative bastion in comparison. Some consider using a D10 instead of a D6 a radical new idea.

In general – false. Euro games use traditional dice, card, set logic and similar algebraic mechanics wrapped in a subject that attracts buyers.

No, I'd never heard of a euro game either!

I think wargame designers can get inspiration from any other type of games. Some Euro games are pretty insipid but there are games that have great ideas that can in turn trigger an innovation in wargames.

Look at SAGA for example, the battleboards are IMO a Euro style mechanism.

Good topic.i had never heard of Eurogames until now. You learn something every day

martin

Look at boardgamegeek.com

There are plenty of Euro / Wargame hybrids.

Me too never knew that those games all made in Europe were called Eurogames… Go figure.
I've never been attracted to the games themselves and although well marketed and pretty I've seen them played at local clubs and didn't think there was even a remote similarity to wargaming. Actually I lie they did use dice. So no don't think they influence at all.
Cheers

"eurogames" must be some americanexpression
never heard it overhere

Not only in the US, Brownbear. Here is commonly used too.

Yes. Obviously those ones that are pure strategy with pretty pictures are not useful – couple of weeks ago I played a 'Atlantis' one with mer-warriors etc, and frankly you could have themed it to almost anything – but others have approaches that can inspire.

It doesn't have to be a straight lift – but there are concepts that you can go – 'I wonder…'

My son is studying ' [Computer] Game Enterprise' at Uni. They spend some of the first few lectures playing board games, the first assignment- group design of a board game. This is to psark discussion of what makes a good game, what are the aims. Obviously a computer game is different to a board game, but there are concepts that need to be understood.

On the tabletop we have to control all the physics. It is not enough to know that hit % is 'x' – we have to come up with a way to translate this.

"Eurogames" has been a widely used term in the boardgames world for the last 20 years or so.

TMP is the only place I have ever seen or heard the term Eurogames. I have played board games for years and was even in the business and never once heard the term.