"Wargaming Vietnam?" Topic

Does anyone war game Vietnam anymore?(the American War)If so what scale seems to be the most popular?
TIA

It's one of those periods thats never as big as "the big ones" (ww2, napoleon, ancients, acw) but there's always some out there.

I would think with the Battlefront stuff, 15mm is the biggest draw.

Dennis,

Hell, you're the one we should be asking ;)

I've recently purchased some 15mm figures from Flashpoint Miniatures and Peter Pig, which I'm going to base singly and use for skirmish gaming, probably with Ivan's (Weasel's) 5Core rules.

I was on Wargame Vault and found a PDF scenario booklet for The Hill Fights, which I want to play out. I haven't purchased it yet, too much other stuff going, but I'm going to get to it.

The Flashpoint Miniatures USMC platoon has mostly M-16s, a couple M-60s, six M-79s, a Lieutenant with .45, two Corpsmen, and a number of M-14s mixed in, which I thought was pretty cool.

I'm pretty curious on T/O&E back then, if you don't mind helping out.

1) I know the MGs are not organic, must be attachments from Wpns Plt, right?

2) Why six M-79s? If we've got three squads of three fireteams, did only two of the three fireteams have M-79s, or were there not three fireteams per squad?

3) Were the M-14s just 'leftovers' (old hands that didn't want to give up their trusty shootin' iron), or was there still a spot in the T/O for a certain amount of them in a rifle platoon?

Thanks in advance for any light you can shed.

V/R,
Jack

Does anyone war game Vietnam anymore?
That seems to be a rhetorical question.

Yes, in 20mm. Lots of minis and lots of vehicles in plastic, metal and resin.

I do in 15mm (I sell Flashpoint here in the US) and am working on a set of rules in which each player commands a platoon.

In prqctice, weapons platoons were usually busted up and their units parceled out to whoever needed them…

the Viet Nam version of Flames of War seems to be fairly popular

Yes. I play a modified version of Charlie Company by RAFM. I started in 1/72 and slowly moving over to 15mm.

wittwer.nl/?p=492

US Marine Corps
Rifle Companymarines

HQ (Captain, Lieutenant, 7 enlisted)
3 Rifle Platoons
HQ (2nd Lieutenant, Platoon Sergeant, 2 Medics, RTO, Right Guide)
3 Rifle Squads (Squad Leader, Grenadier, 3 Fireteams consisting of Fireteam Leader, 2 Riflemen, Automatic Rifleman)
Weapons Platoon (3 81mm mortars, 6 AT weapons, 6 M60)

Marines used the M-14 instead of the M16 prior to 1968.
The Automatic Rifleman carried an M-14 with bipod, essentially a SAW. It was often retained even after the switch to the M-16.
AT and MG teams were usually distributed among the rifle platoons.

Drop by Fields of Fire, an active online Vietnam War site/resource/community.

link

I thoroughly enjoy the Charlie Don't Surf rules from TooFat Lardies. Gives a really good feel for the period. Have not played anything bigger than a company engagement though, as that is what the rules are written for.

Am thinking about doing Brown Water Navy with boats from Gomi Designs ( gomidesigns.co.uk )as they are less expensive than Battlefront. I do like their river mats, but haven't bought any.
BWW

I've collected forces for Vietnam over the years in 15mm, 20mm and 28mm. Never really found rules that I liked. Now the Red Star minis have me thinking about the Indochina War. I'm not sure if that is easier or harder to game.

I have a large 28mm Vietnam project that hopefully will see that light of day in several years. Right now, it's all unpainted lead…

Dennis,

I second Bad Moon's recommendation to check out Fields of Fire. If someone had asked me 10 years ago or even 5 that I would even think of gaming Vietnam I would have looked at them like they were nuts. Here I am, accumulating figures, stunned at how much information is out there on the net and working on terrain. Charlie Company is a great set of rules as is FNG.
Disposable Heroes too will work. There are several freebies on the free wargames page. I will be only doing solo, but have figs to do the French war as well. that one, I would run at a con.
I am using 20mm for my US Vietnam period and Eureka 15s for French Indochina. Not sure what level you want to game, but for skirmish there are some incredible almost scary sculpts out there in 28mm.

Just be warned, it will take a while to get used to it.

Hi guys, can anyone suggest a range of 1/200th Vietnam figures apart from the ones manufactured by Pendraken.

I'm thinking of using this scale mainly because I found a box of Vietnam kit comprising a number of riverine vessels and approx 15 Huey helicopters (transport and gunship) plus a Chinook and a Jolly Green. This would cost a bomb to obtain in 15mm or 20mm so my preference is to get the figures in this size.

If anyone can come up with any suggestions that would be great.

I do Vietnam in 6mm

"Not sure what level you want to game, but for skirmish there are some incredible almost scary sculpts out there in 28mm."

Scary bad, or scary good?

Since 1982 I have gamed Vietnam in 25mm (mostly Platoon 20 figures) at the skirmish level, never more than a platoon (30 or so figures) on each side, using a variety of rules (FNG being the latest). Earlier this month I made the monumental decision to change up to company level gaming (frankly I was bored with skirmish gaming) and have started basing pairs of figures together and calling each base a fire team or half squad. I intend to use modified Crossfire or Charlie Don't Surf and and am hoping for a whole new gaming experience….

Haven't had them out for awhile, but yes, 20mm, mostly Britannia figs with homebrew rules. Company sized + forces for US, VC, and PAVN, individually mounted for skirmish level gaming.

Flashpoint are working up a new set of Vietnam rules, and I am trying to convince one of our club members to design a scenario for us to let us playtest them. I have Vietnam figures in 1/200, 15mm and 20mm although at the moment my preference is for 15mm following the Flames of War riverine releases.

Hiya Just Jack , glad you happy with the Flashpoint Minis USMC.

may I offer;

1) I know the MGs are not organic, must be attachments from Wpns Plt, right?

Right ! USMC rifle Companies have a 'Weapons Platoon' which includes 6x M60 teams. However, in practice these were attached to the rifle platoons, usually @ two teams / Platoon. …But to provide (/sell) a USMC rifle Platoon without M60's ..and insist you purchase a weapons Platoon to gain the M60's would just be stingy. ;)

I now also sell a USMC HQ Platoon which has an extra M60 team, along with additional Officers/NCO's, RTO's (think FO's), medics / wounded, a dog team and minesweepers, LAWs, and a few additional riflemen.
The 'earlier' (pre-1968) "M14 USMC HQ Platoon" also has a 60mm Mortar team and two 3.5" RCL teams. (But not as many RTO's… these were a bit scarcer 'earlier on')

2) Why six M-79s? If we've got three squads of three fireteams, did only two of the three fireteams have M-79s, or were there not three fireteams per squad?

I've been running FPM for just short of three years, and I don't pack 6xM79's in this Platoon pack anymore..just x3. ie: one for each rifle squad. This is likely an older pack.

By contrast; I do pack 6xM79's in a US Army Platoon. ie; one per fireteam of 3-4 men @ two fireteams / squad.

3) Were the M-14s just 'leftovers' (old hands that didn't want to give up their trusty shootin' iron), or was there still a spot in the T/O for a certain amount of them in a rifle platoon?

As I understand the M16 was issued wholesale to USMC units from 1968, but a few 'old salts' did retain their M14 (which compared to the M16 is considerably heavier..so is the ammo,..but is much more of a 'riflemans rifle'). I think there was also a USMC 'tradition' (held over from WW2/Korea) of keeping a designated 'marksman' with the PL HQ ..which preceeded the practice of formal 'snipers' as a BTN 'asset' which didn't become common until about 1969.

BTW ; the M14 figures 'cut down' to make a nice looking shotgun (remove the magazine, and shorten the barrel)..likely the easiest conversion you'll do on the day.

..from just short of three years in the driver's seat at FPM, mostly selling 15mm Vietnam figures,…and 20+ years of Vietnam gaming ; yes ! there are plenty of people playing Vietnam wargaming. It's a pretty unique and fascinating genre. I'd argue the first 'Ultramodern Conflict'… and a portent of things to come.

I see the very popular 15mm 'OTS' (hehehehe!) population the most, but 20mm, 28mm, 6mm and 10mm seem to be popular scales also, likely in this order. (I woulda thought the lovely Platoon 20 figs were in the large end of the 20mm bracket?)

I'd wholeheartedly recommend the 'Fields of Fire' forum.

Hope this is useful. Happy hunting !

I play it with Charlie Don't Surf as well. 6mm (switching to 6mm for everything…). Company level actions.

I am also looking at getting the Force on Force book for it.

edit – figs are all GHQ

Used to run regular games of Charlie Company (20mm), in Vegas, oh about….15 years ago…

Holy crap..it's been that long???

Last game I ran was in Houston in 2004….jeebuz….

I play a lot of 20mm Vietnam in Dayton, OH. I use FNG.

I will be the third one to recommend Fields of Fire Reloaded. It is THE Vietnam wargaming website. The back posts have a ton of useful, interesting information.

Tom

Mike Bravo,

scary good. even unpainted a lot of these 28s look like they were taken from actual photographs. And if you have looked at any of the painted ones over on Fields of Fire, they are incredibly realistic.

Capt Jimmie, thanks for offering the ARVN Rifle Platoon. I plan to get at least 1 soon. A CIDG Striker/MIKE Force platoon in boonie caps/USMC-style caps with M1 Carbines would be VERY cool.

Cheers Rorymac , the ARVN Rangers (/Paras) were a personal want for me too.

a MIKE Force/CIDG Striker Platoon ! Completely Yes !, …I'm planning this now as next year's 'new figure' project. I wanted to do ARVN figures first to establish a slightly smaller figure size , and these (MIKE/CIDG chaps) will be that touch smaller.
I've been approached by more than one chap who wants to create/ underwrite something like a "Hmong special guerrilla unit" (eg. battle for Phou Pha Thi ) ..have researched this a little and it sounds like a great figure project/ direction.

Is likely not going to be a lucrative undertaking, … but hey ! ..that's not the point ! hahahaha !

I can think of 2 manufacturers not on the Fields of Fire links list off the top of my head. One soon to be releases:

ebobminiatures.com/recon28

And the other:

link

Both manufacture 28mm figures.

15mm Battlefront Figures and Charlie dont Surf. Plus enough stuff to do it in 15mm as long as you dont look at my painting very much.

owen

Old glory have a 15mm line too. Mix well with Peter Pig an Flash point. We started using Cold War Commander rules.

Charlie don't Surf plays very nice.

I play in 15mm.

My stuff is set up for Flames of War. I think the special rules and things like helos make it the best version of FoW I've seen; I was quite tired of WWII FoW but Vietnam really piqued my interest.

I also use those figures for Charlie Don't Surf, an excellent game in itself. I recently picked up a copy of Charlie Company and hope to try it soon.

I play Vietnam in 20mm, using Charlie Company, mainly due to the availability of plastic kits to provide armour, APC's along with helo's & fixed wing aircraft for support. Also, if you want to get into the period cheaply there are plastic figures available from Esci/Italeri/Revell & Pegasus. The Esci/Italeri/Revell figures are basically the same sets having been redistributed by the different manufacturers at different times over the years.

The availability of 15mm miniatures now from the likes of Battlefront & Peter Pig also makes that a viable option but careful consideration would have to be given to the rules you decide to use as there are so many out there.

I stand corrected ! , ….

2) Why six M-79s? If we've got three squads of three fireteams, did only two of the three fireteams have M-79s, or were there not three fireteams per squad?

I've been running FPM for just short of three years, and I don't pack 6xM79's in this Platoon pack anymore..just x3. ie: one for each rifle squad. This is likely an older pack.

By contrast; I do pack 6xM79's in a US Army Platoon. ie; one per fireteam of 3-4 men @ two fireteams / squad.

I've just had a look at the packing list for this Platoon -pack and there IS six M79's per pack.. AGAIN …since this March.
The rationale for placing the six Thumpermen in this Platoon pack was ; (a) because the organisational info in the old-school "Buckle for your Dust" ruleset suggests this (for a post-1968 platoon) , AND (b) it also allows you to deploy this Platoon as if it were a US Army Rifle Platoon in flackjackets (eg. a mechanized or 'base' Platoon). I remember I had changed this 'back' in March after a weekend visit, and beer-inspired debate with an old wargaming buddy.

I had completely forgotten this, so for what it's worth, I thought to set my previous disinformation right. Hahahaha!

Rules ? … from making a point of asking customers over the last three years , I'd suggest Battlefronts' TOUR OF DUTY etc. is the most popular (capturing the FOW following), followed by CHARLIE DON'T SURF, FNG and FORCE ON FORCE/AMBUSH VALLEY (in that order).
But some of the older sets like CHARLIE COMPANY, MEN OF COMPANY B (aka; 'VIETNAM 1967'), FREE FIRE ZONE, COLD WAR COMMANDER and INCOMING (a'CROSSFIRE' variant) still have a following with older hands.
A good recent set of rules is 'FROM THE DELTA TO THE DMZ'(:Written by a chap who knows his subject- distributed via GOMI DESIGNS),and 'Free Fire Zone' is getting a re-write by Mike Garner (ex-Airborne) at Hallowed Ground Terrain.
The 'Free Wargames rules' page has a bunch of other rulesets to fit all tastes…there's even a 'DBA/HOTT'-ish version… 'DeBellis Vietnam'
Mark at SCALECREEP MINIS has a good blog (search; 'deep fried crispy mice') where you'll find an independent review of lots of rulesets (he's a bit of a rules aficionado)..so if you're interested in 'Vietnam' as a period , but "don't like the rules" (I hear this a lot)..you're not even trying !

Vietnam as a "period/theatre" has everything a gamer could ask for ! … from the 'French Indochina' period (? essentially a "Colonial" wargame period), to the early "Advisory Special forces" period (1962-1965), to the BIG 'Combined-arms operations' from 1966 to 1970, and the "Vietnamisation" period to 1972 (an 'Advisory period' on steroids), and the "end-of-days" period to 1975 (an 'apocalyptic' period for the ARVN …if you like) … it's got it all ! …even some of the most daring 'Special Forces' operations you'll ever read/research.

Happy Hunting ! There's never been a better time to be playing Vietnam games in 15mm. !